Here is a transcript (with my typos fixed, or at least most of them) of an online chat I just had with PG Music support. Note that I was typing and did not see the rep's message posted at 5:24:11 PM; the rest will speak for itself.
------------------- Tyler 5:19:08 PM Welcome to PG Music's Live Help. How may we assist you today?
ken 5:19:21 PM Hi Tyler.
ken 5:19:57 PM Patience please, I type slowly
Tyler 5:22:55 PM No problem.
ken 5:23:12 PM I upgraded a while back from BIB 2014 to 2016. I used to have no problems playing my midi keyboard to to the VSTi of my choice through BiB 2014. Now, with BiB 2016, I cannot get the keyboard (same one) to communicate at all (even though it's selcted); nor can I get my VSTis (Kontakt) to make any sound, even when pressing on its virtual keyboard. It's on the same PC. Basically since upgrading to BiB 2016 midi is not working at all.
ken 5:24:05 PM I want to play along with BiB tunes but without the midi working I can't. Everything was fine on BiB 2014.
Tyler 5:24:11 PM Hello Ken, I would save on your typing for now, our tech support line isn't open could you contact us after 10am PST when tech support is available.
ken 5:25:35 PM It would take me an excuciatingly long time to list everything I've tried and what happens when I did. There are free screensharing services like Join.me. I would like to have a support call, where I call by phone, and someone helps me while looking at my shared screen. Can you I please make an appointment to do this?
ken 5:26:55 PM Shame, I didn't see your second message that I shouldn't be typing ... I assumed that your first message, "Welcome to PG Music's Live Help. How may we assist you today?" meant there was a point in typing. How unfortunate.
ken 5:28:28 PM Why did you ask how you could help me when you couldn't help? If you're not open, why not say "Sorry, we're not open" , or even answer at all? Would have saved me a bit of time.
ken 5:28:44 PM Are you there?
ken 5:29:28 PM Not cool, Tyler.
ken has ended the chat. ----------------------------
5 minutes of typing from me before he even told me I should not waste my time typing. How very annoying.
In relation to your problem, were you using Kontakt successfully with BIAB 2014?
The reason I ask is because Kontakt is not a general midi synth and it has to be set up, channel by channel, for it to work with BIAB.
To see if MIDI is working, you should remove Kontakt from the VSTi slot from the moment and load Coyote WT. Since Coyote WT is a general MIDI synth, this will allow you to determine if MIDI is working.
Tyler just emailed me to say "we likely will not be doing a screen sharing session" but rather just giving instructions.
Well, I've read the relevant part of the manual, so I have one-way instructions already. But just giving instructions doesn't give me the chance to say, "Ok, I'm trying what you've just told me right now; and it's not working, this is what I see". It turns in to a huge long writing exercise with lots of iterations, whereas in a live talk, in happens at live speed. I do not understand why PG support will take a live phone call, but will not do so if it involves seeing my screen thorugh a web browser.
It bothers me a fair bit to have to ask this, but is there anyone in the community who could help me via screensharing with these very basic issues ? I would be willing to make a phone call (I'm in the UK) on my own bill. I'm not techno-clueless, I use a lot of audio/midi/video software, have for many years; I figured out this aspect on my pown with BiB 2014; but I am stumped here.
I installed BiB 2016 alongside BiB 2014 in the way I'd been advised to, rtaher than overwriting BiB 2014, just in case BiB 2016 threw up some new problems (like this) so I could at least use BiB 2014 as a stopgap; but unfortunately since installing BiB 2016, BiB 2014 won't lauch, instead just displaying a complex techie message about some kind of "access error". So basically, since paying for the "upgrade" I'm a lot worse off.
If I really must, I could pay someone here on the fortum for their time via paypal. I'd say it would reflect poorly on PG MUsic if I had to, but pragmatically, I really want to be able to use BiB the way I used to.
I can hear your frustration. I'll try my best to see if I can help get things up and running for you.
My experience is that it's always best to go right back to basics and build up from there. With this in mind, I always start with getting BIAB's default setup to work and then I move into more advanced areas like using Kontakt.
To check if your MIDI set up is working, could you please try the following.
1. Under the "File" menu, click on "New".
2. Select "Options | Preferences" and then follow the steps indicated by numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 on the image below. (By setting up everything exactly as indicated on the graphic, it will allow determining whether or not MIDI is working properly.)
3. Once you have the options set, exit back to the program.
4. Now load up a MIDI-only style, enter a few chords and regenerate. Does BIAB play?
5. Try your MIDI keyboard and see if you can hear it. There may be lag, but that's not the issue right now. At the moment, we're simply looking at your system and seeing if it's producing sound.
Let us know the outcome.
Regards, Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 11/17/1712:36 AM. Reason: updating image
Coyote WT is indeed the loaded synth. But I then get several problems.
1) I started a New project, In the style picker, I select a style with midi. Say, Clapton1.sty. When I press Quick-play using premade demo, I hear the various midi instruments, but I'm not sure i they are being played back thorugh the Coyote. It sounds like the onboard Microsft synth. Not sure. Anyway...
2) I load the demo song itself, click ok, return to the main interface and press play. Now all instruments except that style's Realdrums play back as piano. Bass, guitar, and organ parts are all piano. Coyote is showing, but it won't let me change the patch in any slots from Piano.
3) I can play and hear my keyboard, but only as piano, as per above, and with borderline unuseable latency which I'd never had before.
4) Loading in the bundled Sampletank, I can load in any instrument in the collection except piano, for exmaples, strings, guitar, you name it, but when I press play, I only hear the same piano I've been hearing. Clicking on Sampletank's virtual keyboard produces no sound. The same applies to other 32 but VSTis I load in to replace sampletank , e.g. Pianissimo, EZKeys, Kontakt, you name it. All of which used to work without a hitch in my now crippled version of Bib 2014. Even though they appear to be loaded, I get no sound out of them, either via their virtual keyboards, or my real midi controller. I only get this generic piano, which again sounds like the MS piano. All these instrumenst work fine in Sonar, Studio One, Acid Pro.
So basically, in BiB 2016, midi does transmit, but I'm stuck in high-latency, cheesy pianoland. A serious step back.
1) I started a New project, In the style picker, I select a style with midi. Say, Clapton1.sty. When I press Quick-play using premade demo, I hear the various midi instruments, but I'm not sure i they are being played back thorugh the Coyote. It sounds like the onboard Microsft synth. Not sure.
For item 1, what you are hearing is a pre-made audio demo file (wma), not playing through the BiaB engine or your on-board synths at all. The associated yellow text box explains:
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
1) I started a New project, In the style picker, I select a style with midi. Say, Clapton1.sty. When I press Quick-play using premade demo, I hear the various midi instruments, but I'm not sure i they are being played back thorugh the Coyote. It sounds like the onboard Microsft synth. Not sure.
For item 1, what you are hearing is a pre-made audio demo file (wma), not playing through the BiaB engine or your on-board synths at all. The associated yellow text box explains:
Thanks.
Well, then that means my midi capability is confined to a single piano patch.
Have you tried a Return to Factory Settings? (You can save your current settings first, BTW)
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I hesitate to post on this one because I use a hardware MIDI synth. But you mentioned Coyote WT and said it sounded like the "onboard Microsoft synth". Well, the good news is that you are right, because that's exactly what Coyote WT is: a way for 64-bit Windows to play the Microsoft sounds (so at least owners of 64-bit Windows will hear something).
Others can advise, but I think you do not want Coyote WT if you are trying to get Sampletank to work.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Noel's excellent instructions and your detailed and thoughtful responses should make this pretty easy to solve.
Quote:
1) I started a New project, In the style picker, I select a style with midi. Say, Clapton1.sty. When I press Quick-play using premade demo, I hear the various midi instruments, but I'm not sure i they are being played back thorugh the Coyote. It sounds like the onboard Microsft synth. Not sure. Anyway...
For your information, you could convince yourself it's the Coyote by clicking the Plugins button on the main screen --> default synth. While the song is playing, you'll see some activity in the Coyote window, e.g. under the Voices column.
Quote:
2) I load the demo song itself, click ok, return to the main interface and press play. Now all instruments except that style's Realdrums play back as piano. Bass, guitar, and organ parts are all piano. Coyote is showing, but it won't let me change the patch in any slots from Piano.
The only thing I could think of is if you have patch changes disabled in Options | Preferences | MIDI Options. All the "Patch Change" checkboxes on the right should normally be checked.
Fix that problem first (the piano only problem), because it is a bit puzzling, and you want to have a normal working setup before trying to address latency and live playing issues (which may require some experimentation).
Quote:
3) I can play and hear my keyboard, but only as piano, as per above, and with borderline unuseable latency which I'd never had before.
To improve the latency, some people use ASIO4ALL, and perhaps you used that in the past. To do this click on Audio Settings button, then select ASIO as your audio driver type. If you have ASIO4ALL listed as a device, select it - otherwise you would need to download and install it first and reboot the program. Also, select the "ASIO Always On" checkbox.
Quote:
4) Loading in the bundled Sampletank, I can load in any instrument in the collection except piano, for exmaples, strings, guitar, you name it, but when I press play, I only hear the same piano I've been hearing. Clicking on Sampletank's virtual keyboard produces no sound. ...
The ASIO solution would probably solve this problem...
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