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I'm becoming aware that the Real Instruments are totally taking over my hard drive because of two things: 1. Large sized software wave files.
2. There are so cotton pickin' many of them. I would propose a rethink on Real Band, Band in a box and Real Instruments. Yes I'm thinking in terms of Real Instrument/Drums synths. We've already got midi which takes almost no space on a hard drive. Why not make guitar, bass, brass and drum synths that would free up 6 tons of hard drive space. Sooner or later we will have to have 10 Terrabyte drives to handle the continuing growth of Real Instruments. My 500 gig is getting pretty full. Something for the Pgmusic guys to think about.
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard 
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Yes, good observation about hard drive space. I've already deleted many of the Real Tracks for styles I don't use. They are on the USB hard drive if I need to reload them.
And it's worse in my case, by a factor of about ten, because I use the audiophile version.
But I'm not sure what you're suggesting about using guitar, brass etc synths.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Jeez, Matt! The Audiophile version must demand a 1 terrabyte drive of its own soon, if it doesn't already
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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Quote:
Yes, good observation about hard drive space. I've already deleted many of the Real Tracks for styles I don't use. They are on the USB hard drive if I need to reload them.
And it's worse in my case, by a factor of about ten, because I use the audiophile version.
But I'm not sure what you're suggesting about using guitar, brass etc synths.
I have a sax synth that follows my midi tracks. A small file. Doesn't take up much overhead. Sounds almost as good as a RI sax. I posted a song on the Off Topics forum a month ago using this synth. It's called, "Pickup The Pieces. Give it a close listen and see what you think.
As you can well hear the sax is following a midi track in RB. It isn't stuck with randomization playing. It follows the midi track to the nth. My thinking is this is the way Pgmusic should go with Real Instruments.
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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The decision to go in the direction of 'realism = wav audio' was unfortunately taken at a time when the midi synth market was beginning to develop into something approaching true realism anyway.
Audio samples for Midi purposes, good ones, neccisarily take up a lot more space than they once did, but no way near what it would take to replace each and every BIAB style with its equivalent real track and real drum counterpart.
it was never a case, or should never have been a case, of neglecting midi as an outworn concept that couldn't be improved upon. There are many things BIAB could do to improve the realism and feel it's midi side starting with better resolution to capture playing nuances.
The fact that it has resolutely refused to do so over the years makes one think that the effort required wouldn't be worth it for PG music in cost-benefit terms. Prove me wrong, please!
Regards
Alan
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which sax synth would that be Russ, sounds pretty good on this end.
Rob
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I did find this simple guitar synth, but I"m not familiar enough with this type of plugin to know if it's any good or not. Anyone use it? SimulAnalog Guitar Suite" http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm
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Quote:
it was never a case, or should never have been a case, of neglecting midi as an outworn concept that couldn't be improved upon. There are many things BIAB could do to improve the realism and feel it's midi side starting with better resolution to capture playing nuances.
The fact that it has resolutely refused to do so over the years makes one think that the effort required wouldn't be worth it for PG music in cost-benefit terms. Prove me wrong, please!
Regards
Alan
I’ve been requesting increased midi resolution for years. 120 PPQ is way to low a resolution these days. 960 PPQ would be much better.
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Quote:
which sax synth would that be Russ, sounds pretty good on this end.
Rob
I found it on google. I don't remember the site. I just typed in, Free Sax Synth, and let IE do its thing. I found one that sounded good. That's the one you just heard. I really need to start documenting this stuff.
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard
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I use DVS free Saxophone by Martin Best. Sounds decent to me
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Expert
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Quote:
Why not make guitar, bass, brass and drum synths that would free up 6 tons of hard drive space. Sooner or later we will have to have 10 Terrabyte drives to handle the continuing growth of Real Instruments.
Something for the Pgmusic guys to think about.
I posted a similar idea a few months ago and got slammed.
I greatly prefer the sound of RT vs Midi but the RTs seem very limiting (so far anyway) in their functionality and I don't see it as a long-term technical solution.
There's certainly a place for WAVs and real audio in the creation of computer-assisted music but in 2009 we should be leveraging the power of software technology to create something better.
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Slammed?
Just explained why it wouldn't work.
Which is apparent by all the highend MIDI synths out in the world, both hardware and software, that still don't sound like the real McCoy.
--Mac
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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You stole my post! I have gone full cycle - love real tracks when they work and fit but... midi thru a good external is sometimes a better fit. There are limiations and advantages for both.
Real Track Plusses:
1 Easy to use
2. Many sound great
3. Real drums work at almost any tempo
4. Authentic style playing is at times sensational
5. Adds a truly profesional touch
Real Track Minuses:
1. You lose a large degree of control
2. Sustaining instruments like piano sound choppy due to the pedal effect cutoff when chord changes
3. They sound best at recommended tempos - too often the tempos are not what I want. I sometimes sacrifice my ideal tempo choice and use real tracks because I love Neil's upright bass sound
4.The real drums are great but heavy cymbal crashes played too frequently can ruin a song. No easy way to edit out
5. Many real tracks like organ were recorded with heavy distortion - for me these are not useable
Midi Plusses:
1. Total control for every note played
2.With a good external synth can sound great if the midi input is excellent. Sound quality is dependent on quality of synth
3. Tempos are not a factor
4. With drums each instrument can be controlled and easily edited - kill overdone cymbal crashes!
Midi Minuses:
1. More time consuming especialty with high quality external synths
2. Existing styles generally not as good in terms of playing as many real tracks
3. Many styles don't sound real (but they could)
My solution/hope:
1. PG music develops a hybrid sytem consisting of real tracks plus REAL MIDI sets of styles. This could be done for example on piano by recording audio thru an excellent digital grand and simultaneusly recording the midi. The resulting midi style track could be in some ways better than the digitally recorded real piano track becuase sustain pedal problems etc could be manipulated. The audio could real track would be just as good as ever if a fine digital piano is used.
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Quote:
My solution/hope:
1. PG music develops a hybrid sytem consisting of real tracks plus REAL MIDI sets of styles. This could be done for example on piano by recording audio thru an excellent digital grand and simultaneusly recording the midi. The resulting midi style track could be in some ways better than the digitally recorded real piano track becuase sustain pedal problems etc could be manipulated. The audio could real track would be just as good as ever if a fine digital piano is used.
What. Are. You. Talking. About??
Unless you have the $3,000 or so killer digital piano synth on your system, that wonderful midi track will still sound like crap through the VSC. Then, the audio track is still an audio track. It still has to get chopped up by the program according to your chords so the sustain will still be cut off so again, what are you trying to say here?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39
Enthusiast
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hi guys,
are we missing the point here - for the small price of some hard drive space we can create music that sounds real and organic rather than stilted and mechanical. It's not that long since all we had were the 'blips' of primitive sound modules and sequencers (hardware only!) that were expensive, unfathomable and unreliable.
Maybe MIDI will make more sense in the future, but for now when I use BIAB, I can create realistic-sounding, varied and exciting music on my PC in a few minutes. Maybe I'm stuck in the past, but that fact still amazes me every time I click on the icon and fire up BIAB!
Sure I could create a list of what it doesn't do that I'd like it to, but experience tells me that one day soon those features will arrive, so I'll spend the waiting-time enjoying what I've got
regards,
Martin
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Joined: May 2000
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Quote:
My solution/hope:
1. PG music develops a hybrid sytem consisting of real tracks plus REAL MIDI sets of styles. This could be done for example on piano by recording audio thru an excellent digital grand and simultaneusly recording the midi. The resulting midi style track could be in some ways better than the digitally recorded real piano track becuase sustain pedal problems etc could be manipulated. The audio could real track would be just as good as ever if a fine digital piano is used.
Your missing something here.
What you are really describing is a common MIDI sampler. That's the hardware box you've already got.
Realtracks sound real because they don't deal with a note-at-a-time situation, instead they deal in breaking up a performance file into small loops by the phrase. There is really no way to break out all the single notes, values, sustains, staccatos, dynamics, etc. from that file to allow you to end up with what a good MIDI sampler, hardware or software, is already doing.
--Mac
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Quote:
Unless you have the $3,000 or so killer digital piano synth on your system, that wonderful midi track will still sound like crap through the VSC.
You're likely off by an order of magnitude. These day's synths are getting darn close to the real thing at s.th. between $ 300 and $ 400. For a start you might check out -> Pianoteq.
Martin
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Quote:
Quote:
Unless you have the $3,000 or so killer digital piano synth on your system, that wonderful midi track will still sound like crap through the VSC.
Check these songs out:
Harvey Gerst using the VSC in production work.
Mqtter of fact, someone in that thread asked Harvey what MIDI synth he was using to sound that good. I bet they were shocked to hear that it was none other than the much-maligned VSC.
I've also done some Piano stuff using the VSC in the past, will have to dig it out of the archives and upload it.
But in the "right hands" the VSC can indeed turn in a good performance.
I don't know *any* MIDI output solution, software or hardware, that will sound great by just loading a BB song and playing back with defaults. This is partially due to the default typically being selections of Patches taken from whatever the GM bank in the synth happens to be. Those are usually designed for blending together easily and not so much for overall audio quality.
Preemptive Strike: Someone is sure to come along and point out that it could sound better. Of course it could sound better. You could also say the same for the latest, greatest, most expensive synth/sampler as well. And people often do. MIDI is subjective and musicians think with feelings.
--Mac
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Posts: 1,110
Expert
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Maybe to some extent one of the rethinks that needs to occur for all of us as users is how we integrate BIAB into our computer system. I realize that over the long haul most of us have become accustomed to installing BIAB into c:/bb. Particualry with the audiophile version, a full install on the C drive isn't as practical any longer and it becomes more practical to run off the hard drive that BIAB is now delivered on OR at the very least to access the real drums and real tracks folders on that drive while still running the main program from the C drive.
I'll have to admit that I wasn't real excited about real drums or real tracks when they came out and probably wouldn't have bought into them if they weren't already included with the BIAB update that I was ordering. After using them, and developing my own way of incorporating them into my music, I'm much more excited about them and expect that they will only improve with time as PG music develops ways to address some of the current shortcomings. This is something that was a brand new concept not too very long ago and it has already grown tremendously in a short time.
I'm all for seeing where the future takes us, and I'm willing to adapt to doing things a bit differenly if it leads to a better sounding product.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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Did I say that techonology was marching on?
Well, she's been gainin' speed, I think.
Just looked at a new Hitachi SATA 7200rpm drive that has a 32m cache.
TWO TERABYTES
$179.00
--Mac
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
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Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
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Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
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