|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,131 |
Hi all,
I wonder if someone could briefly tell me (a non techie person) what is the difference between realtracks and samples that come with other musical software?
Don't other software packages that have samples also get real musicians to initially play the sample to start with? so I'm finding it difficult to understand the underlying differences.
Thanks
Musiclover
Last edited by musiclover; 12/15/09 07:46 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Well technically all digital music is a sample. It just depends on the length of the sample. A CD is a very long sample. The samples that are part of a synth are typically very short samples. One note that then gets stretched out. Sometimes more notes. The more notes the better the result. RTs are sample of complete phrases that can be one measure long and up to 8 measures long. We call them loops.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,217
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,217 |
.
>>...RTs are sample of complete phrases that can be one measure long and up to 8 measures long. We call them loops...>>>
Well, pretty much yeah. There is a bunch of semantics that comes up here. There is an important between "loops" and Realtracks. Lots of programs can do loops, but only BiaB and RBand can do Realtracks. The two function differently.
I hope someone will pop up and explain the difference in detail.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
The only Real difference is that the program does it automatically and randomly. Otherwise it's pretty much the same.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,441
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,441 |
What they said. I think what you're really asking is, "Are RealTracks recordings of actual instruments, and if so how do they differ from loops?"
And the answer is, yes, they are real recorded instruments, and they differ from loops in that (a) Band In A Box can adjust them to whatever chord you want in a given measure automatically, so that you only have to set the instrument and type in the chords, and (b) they provide some variation, so that on subsequent plays you don't always get the same loop in a given measure.
This makes it different from, say, Acid Pro, where you can transpose a whole song at once, or any given loop (or split section of a loop) at once, or transpose at a marker point, but you can't just easily change the chord structure, and you have to vary the loops manually (which I have done on a number of songs, and which is a Big Pain In The Tuchus).
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2025 • Reaper 7 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,199
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,199 |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but another really big thing that I've noticed about Real Tracks is that you can actually change the individual notes in the song, using the RePlay feature. This is a huge difference from Loops, which are not alterable at all.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Gary,
You are both right and wrong. When you hit play in BIAB and the song regenerates the program just chooses different loops to play based on a set of parameters that is built into the program. You could do the same thing in Acid IF you had the patience. That's the beauty of RTs it's totally automated and unpredictable in a good way but they are just loops that are being manipulated in a very ingenious way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,670
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,670 |
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but another really big thing that I've noticed about Real Tracks is that you can actually change the individual notes in the song, using the RePlay feature. This is a huge difference from Loops, which are not alterable at all.
Gary
You may have something there. I have seen references to Real-Charts which may be editable for real tracks. I have not tried that yet, but it would be interesting. Hard to believe they can do that. But they have certainly do some other stuff which is amazing.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,778
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,778 |
Quote:
I have seen references to Real-Charts which may be editable for real tracks.
Editing a "RealChart" won't allow you to change how the RealTracks play. RealCharts are a relatively new feature that PGMusic implemented to allow you see (rather than just hear) what the RealTrack is doing, as well as allow you to save a MIDI rendition of the RealTrack (albeit without some of the nuances of the "live" recording).
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 8TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 11TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting and construction)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39 |
As I understand it...
Each Realtrack is a collection of samples of a real instrument. This collection comprises audio recordings of the same instrument playing in different keys/different chords/patterns all at the same tempo. It also includes recordings of the instrument playing holds and shots etc
BIAB's function when playing Realtracks is as a VERY sophisticated sample player. It looks at the tempo you have entered, the chords entered, part markers and any rests/holds etc. It then selects one of the samples in the realtrack that is suitable based upon these variables, and speeds it up or slows it down to match the tempo (the sample speed is changed so the instrument playing sounds faster or slower than the recorded tempo, but the pitch of the notes stays the same).
That is the clever bit!
BIAB also looks at the preceding and following chords when choosing which sample to use, making it a pretty impressive piece of engineering.
The Realtracks also contain variations for each chord/pattern, so when you regenerate a track BIAB may choose a different sample, still appropriate for the song bar but different to the previous generation. Hence it's always worth generating a few 'takes' of each instrument to see which you like best
I would imagine that the Realtracks are built up using bars as a basic measure. If you look at the tutorial on this site on how to create your own Real DRUMS, it will give you an idea of the logic. However, realtracks also accomodate key and chord changes which is what makes them so impressive and almost impossible to make yourself!
Hope this helps
regards
Martin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
RealTrack source files are actual complete recordings of the instrumentalist playing an entire song along to backing tracks.
The magic comes in the splicing and dicing to create those "loops". Which they really aren't. I'd call them, "phrases".
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
Quote:
Hi all,
I wonder if someone could briefly tell me (a non techie person) what is the difference between realtracks and samples that come with other musical software?
Don't other software packages that have samples also get real musicians to initially play the sample to start with? so I'm finding it difficult to understand the underlying differences.
Thanks
Musiclover
Everybody has come at your answer from different directions and are pretty much correct. I'm going to make an assumption as to what you meant by your question.
When most musicians refer to samples they mean individual notes like when I play a sax patch on my Kurzweil keyboard. I hit a key, I hear a note that sounds like a sax. Change patches to piano, I hit a note, I hear a piano and so on. When you say "samples that come with other software" I'm assuming you mean single note samples like a piano library of a sampled Steinway or whatever. Loops are different and I wouldn't use the term loops in reference to RT's. Sort of I guess but really quite different.
Real Tracks do not go down to level of a single note, I think the smallest increment is a full bar but I'm not sure. RT's are studio recordings of phrases played in a whole bunch of different styles by pro players. As audio files you can not alter them unless you're a real wizard with audio editing. The notes that appear in notation are simply a way for you to see what is being played. Changing the note in the display has no effect on the audio file just like you can't change a note in the guitar part on a commercial CD. There are both good and bad in this. The good is obvious, the outstanding audio quality and the fact it's a live player laying down the phrases not just individual notes. The bad is they all start sounding the same after a while. Say you like the Eagles type of sound so you do 10 tunes using the Southern Rock strumming guitar. True, there are some variations but it's clear that those tracks were laid down by the same player in the same style and your 10 tunes are going to have essentially the same guitar part. That's why the library of RT's is already huge and getting larger. There are lots of different strumming guitar parts now and even though some may not match what the Eagles did, they can sound pretty good in the mix. The more the better from that point of view.
Using midi, you can write out exact parts with detailed variations that fit your tune perfectly but then those are midi parts and you have to trigger a synth with them. Some midi parts can sound pretty good but nothing like a live player. That's why people spend thousands on different hardware and software synths and then many hours tweaking them in their computers to make them sound as close to a real player as they can.
There's no one perfect answer but the RT's really do add a lot imho. I work mostly in Real Band using a combination of midi and audio tracks including RT's. We're trying to duplicate the sound of a multi million dollar studio using pro players here in a bedroom in my case. It's amazing how good it can sound now.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,199
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,199 |
I tested this.
I went and took a song I had loaded, opened up a Real Tracks style for it, with a "String" part, which was in actuality a trumpet sound. In the notation editing window, I am able to move the notes around and completely rework that part. After moving the notes to where I want them, if I press Replay, the song will start over again, and the changes I made to the part are still there!
Of course if you press Play, the parts will regenerate.
So, loops can not do that, Real Tracks will.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
I tested this.
I went and took a song I had loaded, opened up a Real Tracks style for it, with a "String" part, which was in actuality a trumpet sound. In the notation editing window, I am able to move the notes around and completely rework that part. After moving the notes to where I want them, if I press Replay, the song will start over again, and the changes I made to the part are still there!
Of course if you press Play, the parts will regenerate.
So, loops can not do that, Real Tracks will.
Gary
That just isn't correct.
Don't know what you had going on at that end, but whatever it was, maybe fooled you, but you cannot do that with a RealTrack.
I just opened up several different RealTracks and tried it to make sure. Don't work that way. You can change the note names on the staff, but the RealTrack will not follow those at all.
And if it did, it would not be a RealTrack, it would be a common ordinary MIDI sampler...
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39 |
Agree Mac
If you think of it in terms of resolution, then midi has the greatest resolution i.e. down to a single note (actually much further than this). Realtracks resolution is much lower, i.e. down to a bar. If you have a Realtrack that sounds different each time you play it, it's because BIAB is choosing a different phrase from the Realtrack source file for that bar.
So, if your track is responding to individual notes that you are changing, it must be a midi track
Regards
M
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,900
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,900 |
Agreed but I believe RTs resolve down to a quarter note duration as you can programme 4 chords in a bar
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,363
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,363 |
Or maybe resolve to an eighth note, because it can accommodate pushes. That's different, of course, from accommodating eight chords per bar; it's still four chords, but all four could be pushed, making eight possible positions.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 39 |
Good point Sam, I knew those i.e.'s should have been e.g.'s !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,429
Posts791,894
Members39,884
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean