|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52
Enthusiast
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52 |
I bought a new Forte DXi 1.6 synth for my new 64-bit vista OS based on PG recommendations. I love the sound, but I have discovered it does not recognize some, maybe many bank changes. For me it started with the thunder effect and then the castinet bank change, which is in many of my 500 midi files. I sent two e-mails today to Coyotes and got responses. Norm Campbell wrote this evening, 22 Dec 09: "OK, I see now that those two (as well as several other sound-effect-ish sounds) are missing from the set of sample files shipped with ForteDXi. If I can find a public-domain sample for each I will add them to the next version of ForteDXi. "However, as I said, you should be able to add sample files yourself, too. The documentation is installed when you install ForteDXi. To get to it, right-click on the ForteDXi window (in BIAB, for example) and select Help Index. Or just double-click on the file ForteDXi.chm which should be in C:\Program files\Coyote\ForteDXi (or wherever you installed ForteDXi)." I know many people bought the new Forte DXi 1.6 version recently from PG Music and may be beginning to encounter this bank change recognition problem. I have reported it to the PG Music tech staff and this post it to give other buyers some warning of the issue. Norm told me how to get to the documentation he references above in another e-mail: "(by the way it is always possible for you to add your own custom sounds and assign them to any bank and PC - see the documentation under "Advanced Topics" - "Using Other Sample Files")." I hope this will help some of you. Regards, Scott  Thanks Norm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,772
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,772 |
The Forte was offered as an alternative to the VSC, which wasn't being updated by Roland. So the emphasis was using it with BIAB. I suspect that most of the folks here didn't buy Forte to hear thunder, or gunshots, or helicopters, or whatever. Most of the folks here are more interested in pianos, basses, guitars, strings, etc. That doesn't mean that Forte shouldn't have included those GM (and GM2) sounds, just that when it came out (and many of us were involved in testing version 1 quite some time ago), the emphasis was on musical instruments that would work with BIAB. I'm not aware of any BIAB style that uses thunder, but I could be wrong.
But, as you have seen, Norm will and does respond to you (he is to Coyote as Peter Gannon is to PGMusic).
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 8TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 11TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting and construction)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52 |
Thanks, John. Everyone on these forums is so helpful. I was also impressed with Norm's fast and helpful responses. I don't know but I would suspect there are Latin styles that have castanets. Now I feel sure that BIAB 2010 and RB GM functions are intended to support all bank changes. So I am sure it will get worked out. I actually use a helicopter sound too for a truck engine starting on the beginning of one of my Alabama songs! As I understand it, now the ForteDXi is the only choice for 64-bit processors. Again, thank you for the background. I have read many of your posts in other threads and really appreciate your insights! Happy Holidays! Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,772
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,772 |
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 8TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 11TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting and construction)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52 |
I finally went ahead and boutht the Music Creator 5 primarily to get the 32-bit TTS-1 synth and got it installed. I may go back to the Forte DXi when their full bank patch update comes out. I was very have to find a new feature, for me anyway, in Real Bank: a Bank Select Dialog box. Right click on the track and go up the menu to the Band Select Dialog Box. It leads to the avaialbel Bank changes for the instructment and gives you the MSB (CC 0) amd the LSB (cc32) for the bank change you might like to make in the synth your are using. But then you have to remember to got back to the event list (something I have trouble doing) and enter the cc's in the proper order (one after the other appears to work best for me): first the MSB (cc 0) then the LSB (cc 32) and finally the program change instrument e.g., 25 for a nylon string guitar bank change. Then if you change synths you may have to change the MSB (CC 0) and LSB (CC 32) again to get the right patches on the new synth. I hope I have this right. It all seemed to work for me on the tracks I had bank changes when I installed the TTS-1. I am sure the ForteDXi will be out with added bank change patches before too long and I will be forced with deciding beteen two excellent synths for my 64-bit processor. Someone please correct me if I have not got this information and procedure right. Happy Holidays to All and to All a Good Night. Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52 |
I have a 64 bit Windows 7 OS and I have been working with TTS-1 and ForteDXi synths in Real Band for a month trying to correct problems I reported in a earlier post in this thread. I now believe it is likely that the TTS has a problem recognizing bank changes in midi files. It seems like almost any bank change can cause an irregularity in the playback of the file AND in subsequent files - at least in my 64-bit W7 system. For example, a file had an MSB: 1 entered on a drum channel. The drums in the next file played were changed to a piano. In another file bank changes on four channels resulted in three of the channels sounding as pianos and the fourth sounding as a fretting sound - the originally set sounds were two guitars, a bass, and strings. When I deleted the bank changes in most cases the irregularities disappeared and subsequent files also functioned properly. In a few files, usually GM2 files, with almost all channels containing bank changes, I was not able to solve the problems - until I exited the virtual synths and played the files with the midi mapper. If the problem on the original file is not corrected in some way it seems that every successively opened file with the same synth installed has instrument changes - usually to piano sounds - like Program 1 was a default if the synth did not recognize the bank change. So far the only person who has duplicated these problems played the file I forwarded him on his XP system with the TTS and it was fine, but when he changed to the midi mapper and MME the distortions in sound occurred. ForteDXi admittedly does not recognize all bank changes (mostly effect-like sounds I understand, e.g., thunder) but I have not played a lot of files through Forte so I don't know the extent of the problem there. Another strange occurrence is that when the sounds in a file played through the TTS has bank change problems it can sometimes be corrected by switching to the Forte. Then when you switch back to the TTS, on the same file, the problem is sometimes corrected - like there has been a reset of the instruments. The sound on the TTS also seems so intense that sometimes high pitched sounds, like hung notes, develop and actually bleed over into the next file if there are inadequate resets at the end and beginning of files. The absence of a zero entry on the end of pitch bend strings also appears to cause problems. I have been working through these problems one at a time for a month and am learning to live with them - usually by limiting or deleting bank changes or switching to the MME and midi mapper as a last resort. I do not intend to post anymore about the topics as no one else appears to be experiencing them right now and the PG staff apparently has not been able to replicate the problems. I have reported them to Cakewalk/TTS and to the Forte people. But should someone else bump into the same or similar problems I would be happy to discuss them further. I hope no one does. I hope it is a set of problems somehow unique to my system or files. However, the problems have certainly undermined my confidence in my back-up music for performances and it may take some time to restore.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52 |
I want to thank everyone here who has reviewed and made such helpful comments about the TTS problems I have discussed in earlier posts. But I think Andrew has found the solution and the cause. Let me try to explain it simply - as I am not knowledgeable enough to explain it in the proper technical terms. Please forgive any slight errors.
Essentially the TTS does not change automatically from GM2 to GS mode when a SysEx msg is sent (my external SD-20 does). Roland says soft synths do not recognize any SysEx msgs. When Real Band opens a midi file it usually strips the bank change controllers from the event list and puts the information in the patch dialog area (altho sometimes some MSB or LSB contollers are not stripped and remain in the event list). TTS is by default in the GM2 mode (although you can manually change it to GS, etc), so any GS bank change msg can cause problems.
So, improper or incomplete bank change settings in the midi files can cause the TTS to go to its default settings with certain MSB contoller numbers (other than 120 for drums and 121 for all other instruments). The default settings in TTS in this situation are PC 1 (piano) -unless you have manually changed it to something else on a channel by channel basis. So your instrument can be automatically changed to a piano or, ocassionally, something else, by the TTS when it gets an improper bank change controller.
So I need to go back into all the files and make sure I am getting the right bank change msgs to the TTS. I have a list of all the GS and GM2 bank change possiblities. I suppose that is all as clear as mud! Sorry.
As to the possibility of pitch changes distorting sounds, the TTS help file says if you have sound troubles with the TTS turn down the volume. I initially had my lappy sound set to 100%, but I have turned it down. Andrew says about the only problem people have with pitch bend is failing to enter a zero at the end of the pitch bend strings. I found many such situations in the midi files I have. I think it can lead to the bleeding of sound into the next file played if the proper resets are not entered. And it seems like many programers no longer bother with resets.
Of course, if there is an improper bank change msg on a channel with pitch bend I assume you can get unusual results.
I know I will have more problems of various kinds, but now, thanks to all of you, I feel like I have many new friends who will probably be able to help me find a solution to any problem!
Thank you all very much! Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Bank Change
Patch Change
Two different entities.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52 |
I may have gotten something wrong, Mac. But the patch on a channel can be set to a guitar, for example, especially at the beginning of a file. But there is a bank change or incomplete bank change that is in the file. If the TTS does not recognize the bank change, when the track begins to play TTS will sound the notes in, usually, a piano sound, if that is the default instrument for that channel in TTS. I hope that is what I said in the earlier post. Ha! So, I realize that patch and bank are two different things and tried to describe as best I could what happens. Thanks, Scott 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,586
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,586 |
Just to clarify a bit, the main thing to understand about the TTS-1 is that (1) it is a GM2 synth, and (2) you can edit the default sounds and save them in User banks. Banks (MSB) 1 and 2 are the user banks, and unless you have edited and saved your own sounds in these banks, all the Program #s are "acoustic piano" by default. Here are the details:
USER NORMAL
Bank MSB 001
Bank LSB 000 - 003
Program number 001 - 128
USER RYHTHM
Bank MSB 002
Bank LSB 000
Program number 001 - 128
GM2 RHYTHM
Bank MSB 120
Bank LSB 000
Program number 001,009,017,025,026,033,041,049,057
GM2 NORMAL
Bank MSB 121
Bank LSB 000 - 009
Program number 001 - 128
If you don't specify any bank, then by default you'll get the (Bank LSB 0) patches on the GM2 Normal bank, which are just the General MIDI 1 patches. However if you are trying to choose the extra patches that are part of General MIDI 2 (not in GM1), then you should specify the correct banks as listed above. You can refer to the General MIDI 2 instrument list in the TTS-1 help file. For example, "Helicopter" is Program #126 in General MIDI. If you want the extra General MIDI 2 patch "Siren" instead of "Helicopter", then you would need to send it BankMSB (controller 0) 121, BankLSB (controller 32) 5, and Program# 126.
Last edited by Andrew - PG Music; 01/24/10 02:25 PM.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 52 |
Thanks, Andrew.
That last paragraph helped me too.
I wish I had named this thread TTS-1 Bank Change Recognition! I sent Norm at Forte a copy of my last post about the TTS bank change situation just in case it had any relevance to the ForteDXi 1.6.
Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Other PG Music Programs
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Well, the Forte has but one bank, the GM bank...
Which is why I thought it relevant to speak of the differences between Patch Change and Bank Change commands.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,295
Posts790,698
Members39,854
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean