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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7 |
Hello
Has anyone had any luck installing Band-in-a-Box 2010 (or previous versions) on a Windows 7 Professional box in the Program Files directory?
On my system, if I install Band-in-a-Box in Program Files I run into all kinds of permission problems when trying to write to the C:\Program Files\bb directory. This doesn't happen if Band-in-a-Box is installed in the root (C:\) directory.
Why not just install Band-in-a-Box in C:\bb you might ask? Because we have file systems and directory hierarchies for a reason and if any program can install itself where ever it wants to, it defeats the order of a file system. I would like to see Band-in-a-Box a little bit better behaved.
I didn't have this problem in Windows XP and I haven't seen any other programs experiencing similar problems. I know that it has to do with Windows 7 "improved" permissions and security schemes.
I am just wondering what other users' experiences have been like.
Thanks.
[color:"blue"]Lynn F. Jordon II
Band-in-a-Box 2010 (Build 293)
Windows 7 Professional (32) - 2 GB RAM[/color]
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 34
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 34 |
Hi Dogman,
I have it in the program files folder on my c: drive and never had any trouble with that. I turned off UAC in Win7 before trying to install. I'm running Win7 64bit, but 32 bit should work, if I got mine going on 64. So, it is possible and if you didn't turn off UAC, hopefully that's the trick.
Glen
DAW SOFTWARE: Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab
DAW PC: Win11, Intel i9-12900 CPU, MSI MAG Z690 Tomahawk, 64GB RAM, ZOOM Livetrack L-12, Yorkville YSM1P-II Monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 34
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 34 |
Some detail I left out. These are the directory names I used To store my PGMusic files without issue.
C:/Program Files/bb
D:/Realtracks
D:/RealDrums
DAW SOFTWARE: Cakewalk Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab
DAW PC: Win11, Intel i9-12900 CPU, MSI MAG Z690 Tomahawk, 64GB RAM, ZOOM Livetrack L-12, Yorkville YSM1P-II Monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,848
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,848 |
Quote:
Why not just install Band-in-a-Box in C:\bb you might ask? Because we have file systems and directory hierarchies for a reason and if any program can install itself where ever it wants to, it defeats the order of a file system.
The problem is not that BIAB is not playing nicely with your folder hierarchy, it's that Microsoft has decided that programs installed in "C:\Program Files" can only change things in certain ways. If you turn off UAC (and I mean completely, not the pseudo turn-off that Win7 now provides), you will probably find it works fine in Program Files.
The problem is that because BIAB doesn't write to the registry, but instead modifies configuration files in its own folder, Windows 7 sees that as modifying system files and doesn't let you do it.
For me, I'm glad BIAB doesn't write to the registry. That's what lets you just hook up the external drive to any computer and start working with BIAB right away. And when you are done, no traces of BIAB on that computer for someone to clean up later.
I put all my PGMusic (and other programs that behave similarly) in a folder called "C:\Apps" that I created. I then create a folder hierarchy of programs under Apps. That keeps things tidy, but doesn't cause the problems you described. Works great in "C:\Apps", whether UAC is turned on or off.
By the way, this is a Vista problem also. Vista doesn't like programs that write directly to configuration files in the Program Files folder. In fact, when I installed WinRAR (a file compression utility), it wouldn't even let me install my license file, because the file goes into the WinRAR folder. Of course, when I turned UAC off, it worked fine.
It's not BIAB; it's Microsoft trying to protect you from yourself.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,278
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,278 |
Quote:
It's not BIAB; it's Microsoft trying to protect you from yourself.
There got to be ways taking care of such issues with properly programmed S/W - thus it's likely BB anyway ...
Martin
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Is it more important to point fingers or is it more important to get your BB installation up and running well?
Turn UAC completely off, if you can. Right now that is the only known solution to your problem.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,278
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,278 |
Don't think it's a contest of pointing fingers. There is a hitch, though. If you get comfortable blaming others such as Microsoft, you document that you won't take responsibility for your own programming tasks. Other programs seemingly don't have problems with UAC issues and UAC was introduced for a reason. Turning UAC off looks like wielding some axe and fishing for an excuse -> there is another company to blame, it's not me ...
Personally I never had an issue with this UAC stuff here on Vista business. Might be related to the fact that I like BB installed on its own partition, thus the seemingly capricious C:\Program Files directory does not get involved.
I would hate having to turn off UAC and thereby compromising the system security, just in order to have some program do what it's supposed to do.
Martin
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7 |
Hello to all and thank you for the responses.
I realize that this is a Windows 7 thing and I wasn't flaming Band-in-a-Box - I have nothing but love for PG Music. Some of the security enhancements in Windows 7 I like, some of them can be a pain in the butt. The default install location of the root drive seems a little old-school to me though.
I re-installed Band-in-a-Box into the default C:\bb directory and it is working fine. I will probably re-install Band-in-a-Box to the Program Files directory and turn the User Access Control all of the way off as several have suggested though, but, as MartinB mentions, the UAC is there for a reason.
[color:"blue"]Lynn F. Jordon II
Band-in-a-Box 2010 (Build 293)
Windows 7 Professional (32) - 2 GB RAM[/color]
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,918
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,918 |
Hello Lynn, A quick way to fix this problem is to right-click on the bbw.exe file in your Band-in-a-Box folder, select Properties and choose 'run as administrator'. The other way (as others have suggested) is to turn UAC off, although some people don't like to do that. I think the best way though, is to move the bb folder somewhere else ... C:\My Programs\bb, for example. In our testing, Band-in-a-Box runs fine when installed to the Program Files directory in Windows Vista or 7, whether or not UAC is turned on and whether logged on as an administrator or standard user. However, the Program Files directory in Vista/7 does play tricks on you, so I can see that the potential for complications does exist. The trick is that when you don't have administrator privileges, you cannot write to Program Files. So files that the application creates/modifies in Program Files do not actually get saved there, they get redirected to a virtual location. You might find your saved files in a directory like this: \User\<accountname>\appdata\localsettings\virtualstore\programfiles (you would need to be showing hidden folders in Explorer to see it). If you have administrator privileges the file redirection doesn't take place, which creates further complications in itself. So theoretically everything should work fine, but simple tasks can become complicated when virtual folders are involved - especially with a program like Band-in-a-Box that has thousands of files, many of which are potentially user editable. (For example, consider what happens when you open the \bb\styles00 demo subfolder (using the SongPicker to save the songlist data for that folder), then open the song African.mgu, change a couple of chords and re-save the file)
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,486
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,486 |
Hi Andrew,
I agree with your excellent advice - I have not had any of these problem witrh Windows 7 or previous versions and the run as administrator is the best answer
jazzman
BIAB - RealBand - 2022
Windows 10 64
Zoo computer with 7i processor- SSD 1TB -2TB HDD
Roland keyboards
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 928
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 928 |
Quote:
I put all my PGMusic (and other programs that behave similarly) in a folder called "C:\Apps" that I created. I then create a folder hierarchy of programs under Apps. That keeps things tidy, but doesn't cause the problems you described. Works great in "C:\Apps", whether UAC is turned on or off.
I do the exact same thing. Only, I call mine "Music Apps."
I almost never use The Program Files folder except for things like MS Office.
I have had no problems with BiaB on Windows 7 Home Premium *
* Except for the 'Style Creation Exception Error' mentioned some weeks ago.
Have not had a chance yet to address that again ... pun intended.
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