Awesome dialog folks. It is interesting to hear the different views. Of course none of us know where things will go, but if we hold open conversations where nobody’s views are wrong but just ideas at the least PGM know what users think. I try to remember that those who post here regularly are a small cross section of users.
A couple responses to others, Charlie I still have a older VSL interface 1818 it still works perfectly in S1 4.6, but I understand what you mean by things slowly becoming obsolete. Secondly rustyspoon, as far as the plugin not being stable. I find it is very stable, yes there are a few features not working properly like the RCs from the RDs, however it works in Reaper but not Studio one. For me in studio one other than that it works pretty good. What does it need? Complete integration of BiaB intro/endings, hold and shots, a few other updates, and such then give us solo/mute buttons as pipeline diagrams. It would be a pretty cool plugin.
Maybe a BiaB/RB split is not possible, maybe it is. I don’t know the dynamics of that. That is one reason I mentioned ramping up PT development. Here’s one of the first programs build after BiaB. Sure it is dated to some degree. Still it has good bones. Midi, audio, BiaB files can be opened and it is not tethered totally to BiaB. The midi could use a bit of modern features, the audio editing window could use some updating, the plugins work but could use some updating. The mixer view and the tracks view are the ones needing a ton of work.
Tracks view: Toss out the 48 track limit. Delete the 48 tracks showing. Allow the user to add tracks as needed like all other DAWs. Three types midi, mono and stereo audio.
Mixer view: Chuck the 8 aux busses, and FX busses . Clean it all out. Nothing showing but the main output buss, redesigned with pre and post fader output. Allow individual Channels to appear when added by user from either of the two views, give them both FX inserts or sends to busses. Allow stereo or mono busses to be added per user need. Allow busses have inserted FX, or sends to other busses or outboard hardware
Modernize the GUI, and update the automation to work like other DAWs. Now you can record fader movement, change that to a more visual system like node based products. Develop plugin automation in the same vein. If you own BiaB and the new redesigned PT, then PT could access the RT/RD folders, or those that do not want to buy BiaB, could purchase PT packages that include RT/RDs. Allowing the new plugin version (3.0) that is built in and used a one click to open/close, to access these files.
Anyway it happens it should be fun to watch and use. Let’s never stop imagining what can be both with BiaB and with all things we enjoy in life.
Okay to dramatic, a little over the top? Hey I enjoyed writing it anyway. Hope your all having a great Sunday afternoon.
Last edited by Rob Helms; 12/22/1911:39 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
Pepe, I do understand what is at stake in development. I also understand that it take time. I also know what the others do and don’t do well I have been doing this for better than 20 years. I have spent quality time with several DAWs, PTPA, Cakewalk MC versions 1,2,3,5, Sonar X1, Multitrackstudios, Reaper, Studio one from version 2 through 4.6. I also spent two solid years using RB as my full time DAW. Yes I agree it lacks a few modern features, but unlike someone who earlier said they spend 15 minutes with one version, and 5 with another I used the tar out of it. It is different, and as said some things are either missing or underdeveloped. There is a lot more under the hood than given credit for. I did over 100 projects in RB. As for 64 bit, that does not make a DAW light years “better” than a 32 bit DAW. 64 bit does not make anything sound better. It just allow the system to run faster on a 64 bit OS.
I might be a dreamer, and a romantic as you say. But I will never change. I believe that with dreaming comes ideas, and ideas breed excellence. PG music at one point dreamed up a fantastic product that gives many people the opportunity to create their dreams, be they hobbies, professions, or whatever. With more dreams, and hard work more dreams can come to fruition. Let the dreamers dream, and the creators create.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
Should be enough challenges in the core competency, composition, to keep PGM busy for the foreseeable future. Haven't seen much in the way of hip hop or rap in the user forum. Listening to the radio, disco changed but never really died, in fact, seems stronger than ever. Composers today are weaving ever more complex rhythmic structures and patterns, beats, and not just with the skins -- any sonic is fair game for today's rhythm kings. That's just one of the six basic components : strings, guitars, bass, piano, drums, melody. I understand, PMG does not want to risk abandoning their base -- folk, rock, country, blues, other 12 bar 1-4-5 forms, a base for which BiaB has been a dream come true. What has the digital DAW brought to the table? Well, first off, synchronicity. Then, split, copy, and paste. Add search, precision, effects. If I could ask for anything on BiaB, it would be an enhanced digital readout.
cool ideas Ed. I don't see BiaB chasing this path, but who knows. especially if more folks request it. With real drums/tracks anything is possible even with out editing the audio.
To me this is more suited to a true DAW. Where audio editing is available in many forms and tracks.
I guess DAW is a subjective phrase it is simply a Digital Audio Work Station. by the words Biab qualifies, however around here most folks tend to think of a DAW as a typical recording studio software.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
Thanks, everyone. When we have a DAW that, like MuseScore, reads BIAB native files and actually reads the chords, then we'll have something.
But how about Music XML? If you Save Special a BIAB song as Music XML, will Studio One read those chords directly (not just 'interpret')? Will any other DAW you know do that? My question is prompted by learning Studio One has a separate chords track, which I would find valuable enough to learn another DAW for IF it reads the BIAB chords directly. Thanks.
Matt as far as I know Studio One cannot directly do this. How ever I am able to import the BIAB XML into Presonus Notion and send it directly to Studio One and have Studio One's chord track analyze it. Here is a picture of the BIAB song file called ADESTE which I saved as a XML file and imported into Notion then sent to Studio One. Notion & Studio One work together in case you are not aware of that.
BIAB 2025 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, Mac Mini M4 with Logic Pro 11, Melodyne Studio
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
Ok, ...User Videotrack showed an idea of auto-hiding mixer some time ago. So far, I was not able to see or come up with a better idea. Sorry, I can not find the post...
Not sure who deleted my post on this thread but I'm gonna repeat myself (and prolly others as well!)
Realband development should be halted immediately and it should only be supported as a legacy product. All resources should be put toward the flagship products, BIAB and RealTracks! Spend time fixing bugs in BIAB and enhancing it with features like true inline bar-by-bar regeneration, more than 4 beats per measure, extending the 255 bar limit, allowing more tracks, etc.
Realband has just a single feature that is better than other DAWs and that is the ability to use RealTracks. Without that there would be absolutely no reason to use it. It was a nice effort by PGM but there are FAR BETTER DAWs available cheap or even free! I would bet money they don't have a single Realband user who chose it as their DAW separate from buying BIAB.
Realband could never stand alone as a product so don't continue to invest limited valuable resources in reinventing a wheel that already exists far beyond what you can create! Improve BIAB instead!
Thanks JJJ for weighing in. Every opinion is valid. I agree with you in part. BiaB should fix the old nagging issues. 255, 4 beats etc. Bar by bar is a cool idea.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
JJJ, I agree that resources have to go to places needed most and with most of other points you made. Except, I would prefer "selected bar freeze and re-generate un-frozen" approach instead of bar by bar. I believe there is more control over the arrangement this way.
VideoTrack, your link to post says: Access denied...
Ok, ...User Videotrack showed an idea of auto-hiding mixer some time ago. So far, I was not able to see or come up with a better idea. Sorry, I can not find the post...
"it would be great if you can redesign the GUI. In this state it looks old-fashionned, more like a random collection of functions and is therefore not very productive.
I won't pretend. It reeks of legacy DOS and still has some clumsy non-intuitive menus. From the sample concept I prepared, barely a word has been sent in reply from PGM Staff.
There's a time-warp thing happening here, and it's holding the product back.
This is not just my view. I can demonstrate other real-world statements that have been mentioned where sales are jeopardized because new and potential users are simply put off by the appearance.
Sometimes you have to be direct, because being blunt and direct is the best way to be. The product is great, and is being improved all of the time. The single feature that desperately needs attention is the UI.
Yeah, here it is! Thank you pipeline! (Link still does not want to work for me)
Devs of PG, please look at this! Maybe some buttons & elements can have more modern appeal and position, but the concept Videotrack came up with is brilliant! This was posted 4+ years back.
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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