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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I am running Windows 7 64 bit which as you know won't run the included Roland synth in BIAB. I am using the Microsoft GS synth which won't sink with real tracks due to the latency. I own Miroslav Philharmonik and Sample Tank 2. Does anyone know if there is a way to use the synth engines out of these programs and make them work in BIAB and Real Band? If so, which file do I pull and what folder do I place them in? Or if there is a way to make the Microsoft GS synth sink with real tracks? I know that I can get TTS-1 and use it but I am trying to use what I already have. I apologize if this question has been answered before.
Thank you for your help.
Steve
Steve
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I forgot to tell you. I am running BIAB 2009
Steve
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Using MME sound drivers and the microsoft synth, all that is required is to enter the right latency figure in milliSeconds into the Latency box in the BiaB MIDI Output window.
This number can differ with different CPU speeds, but the recommended starting point is to enter "430" there for 430mS. Trial and error, you might be able to pare some off of that figure to get it dead on, but 430 is typically "enough". Some really fast machines, you may find that a number in the 200s does the job. You may have to revisit several times to narrow it down. Once you find it, it should stick.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Thanks Mac. I will give that a try. I really appreciate how you and the others on this forum help us with our problems.
Steve
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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It doesn't have to be hit and miss any longer. Go to: audio/audio drivers settings click on "soft synth latency adjust" & follow the instructions.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I own Miroslav Philharmonik and Sample Tank 2. Does anyone know if there is a way to use the synth engines out of these programs and make them work in BIAB and Real Band?
You can use one of these but not both at the same time with Biab because it can only access one midi output port.
Real Band on the other hand has 16 midi ports so no problem there. The problem with these is they are not GM synths and Biab works best with a GM synth like the Forte DXi, the Roland TTS-1 or a hardware synth that has a GM bank like the Ketron SD2. Those just load up and play. I have Sample Tank and I even bought the Onmisynth GM soundbank for it thinking it would work like any other GM synth but it doesn't. You still have to go into the ST window and set up each instrument on the appropriate midi channel that Biab is using for that instrument. ST lets you create preset banks but even that doesn't do much for you because one style Biab may want an acoustic bass with an electric piano and another style it wants a finger picked bass with an acoustic piano and the same for all the other instruments and it just becomes unwieldy, as least for me it does. Now, Biab will let you select a midi channel too but that doesn't change anything as far as this is concerned. Some people don't mind setting up the instruments for each song and if you want, you can use ST but for most of us we just want to select a style and hit play seamlessly and only a dedicated GM synth will do that.
RB is a different animal and most don't use it for immediate one time play like they do Biab. I will mix and match all kinds of different synths searching for the right combination of sounds. I use ST with RB a lot but not Biab.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I was gonna start a new topic, but this seems like a logical place to ask this question. (FYI, I am a BIAB and MIDI noob.)
On a scale of 0 to 10 -- with PC speaker sounds being a zero and my son's Roland Fantom X6 keyboard being a 10 -- where does the Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth (driver version 5.10) on my ancient computer fall?
Just curious.
-Schnaz
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The wavetable synth is the most basic MIDI synth since it is free with the OS. It is about the lowest available, since it is free with the operating system. You get the most current version by updating Windows. Not to pick on it, as there were much worse ones in the past, but currently it is the basic 'no frills' sound engine for MIDI in Windows. Try the free trial of Forte and see if you hear a difference. To some it may not make much of a difference. To others it may make a lot of difference. Depends on your needs. I do like my Fantom sound engine. 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thiongs like Sampletank with BiaB are hit and miss. I use it there at times, but the problem is that Sampletank does not act as a GM set. So if you play the same genre of music you can set it up a four piece band and use the same instruments. Or drop the tune in Rb and you can have different setups in ST with ease. I personally love the sounds in Sampletank2
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Actually, you can use two softsynths at the same time ... or more ... you just need a VST sub-host. http://www.xlutop.com/html/products.htmlChainer is a plug-in everybody needs. Each instance of it has 10 columns and 10 rows. Each column can be set to any midi channel or 'all' channels. If you want to get really crazy you can even insert another instance of Chainer within itself. So, let's say you've now selected Chainer as you 'VST' synth. Of course it isn't ... but BIAB will accept it as one. Now you can open Chainer and start inserting softsynths and effects ... as many as your computer can handle. Of course it will still be only a stereo stream ... but a pretty potent one. You can place channel 1 to 'all' midi channels and then insert VSC or any other multitimbral plugin set to GM and everything will play with no further effort ... it's just the same as selecting VSC as you DXi synth. Now in channel 2 just insert you Philharmonik and set it, for example, to only the same midi channel as the BIAB 'Strings' ... can't remember the channel number off hand ... and not to 'all.' Now when you play you'll have GM strings augmented by Philharmonik. You can then place you SonikTank in another channel and, for example, just use a better guitar patch. Of course you can tweak this anyway you want ... don't have to use GM at all. Also, you don't have to worry about patches. Once you've set up your softsynths in Chainer, you can save a preset in Chainer that will call them all back including the saved patch for each individual synth or effect (the way you set it up the last time ... which you can of course change and save a differnt set up from in the future. Also, in each column you can place what ever type of effects, e.g., EQ, compression, chorus, etc., you want following where the synth is. Hey, want stacked sounds? Just place more than one synth in a row in Chainer and you can play them all for rich sounds. Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks everyone for your help.
Steve
Steve
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
The wavetable synth is the most basic MIDI synth since it is free with the OS.
It is about the lowest available . . . .
Yeah. It's pretty cheesy.
Quote:
I do like my Fantom sound engine.
I can't believe the sound that thing makes. The abundance and quality of the patches are incredible.
Last edited by Schnazola; 02/05/10 07:18 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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That Chainer plugin peaked my interest.
However, moving to Realband at this point removes the overhead of that plugin altogether, as you can easily use multiple synths.
That's one reason the two programs work together so well.
Wavetable synth is servicable for getting the idea down. But when you want to get better MIDI sounds, there are more options available in RB, some free.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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Hello Retake,
I have used SampleTank successfully with BB, but it does require a little tinkering in my experience, since as I recall it wasn't easy (or possible?) to get it to respond to Program Changes.
Some tips..
- Use the VSTi version of the synth, rather than the DXi. To do this, you'll need to Add VSTi Plugin in the DX/VST window. It will then show up as "<VSTi> name" at the bottom of the drop-down.
- To choose an instrument, first click a Part/Channel in the left side of the window, then find and double-click on the instrument that you want to load into that part in the browser window (right-hand side). For Band-in-a-Box, you will need to load in the instruments manually in the SampleTank window. You can ..I think.. save your loaded instruments as various presets so you don't have to do as much work each time.
- It might be possible to create an entire GM set of instruments and have it respond to program changes - I'm not entirely sure, but something to look into..
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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@rharv ... you'd find Chainer a treat in RB as well. It is not at all cpu intensive ... no more so than what you load in it would be anyway.
If you understand how Reason, Cubase, Reaper of others save 'device chains' where your synth and all plugins represent a virtual preset ... Chainer does this in spades.
So in RB ... or any DAW ... you can save your synth with an entire chain or effects of your choice to be loaded as a single VST.
It is without question the 'Swiss Army Knife' of VST plugins ... or maybe the virtual patch bay of VST.
Prado
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Steve
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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All of that stuff with Chainer is great, Prado but it doesn't address the program changes problem with Biab. The deal is Biab will throw in a program change in the middle of the song depending on the style and/or substyles that are happening. Since Biab is doing this in real time, any synth that is loading large samples like any of the ones being mentioned here including all the other big name samplers like Kontatk, Halion, EMU X, whatever will completely lock up Biab because there is no time to load that sample. Read the other thread asking about higher banks in the Forte DXi. A dedicated GM soft synth will load the entire GM soundset into ram so they are instantly accessable by Biab. The key word here is instantly. If it even takes a half second to load a new sample in order to answer a program change, Biab will completely lock up. We have had detailed discussions here in the past about this. It would be good if Biab were to change instruments in the middle of the tune, it changes midi channels too so you could set that up but what happens is a particular style may switch from say a nylon rhythm guitar to a steel rhythm guitar when it gets to substyle C or whatever. That switch happens on the same midi channel and ST only has one instrument on any one channel but Biab has two in this example. A GM bank that has been loaded into ram will handle that with no problem.
When you're using a full DAW every instrument is on it's own track and midi channel so that's not a problem because those program changes are not happening in real time, you're setting that up ahead of time before you hit the play button.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hardware MIDI synths are instantaneous...
*NO CPU load.
*Zero latency (well, under ~1mS and for all intents and purposes, that's zero)
*Very stable and robust. They aren't going to suddenly change due to software corruption, added programs, windows updates or any other of the seemingly endless myriad of problems that can pop up with software solutions.
*Very good sound. This, of course, depends on the synth, but these days, there are many good sounding hardware MIDI synths on the market. Ketron SD-2 sold by pgmusic is right up there among the best in that regard.
Look. I spent a small fortune on software solutions. Soundfonts. Then Gigastudio and Gigasamples ($$$). Then some Modeling synths. Would it ever end? Seemed like that as soon as I got one "next big thing" up and running halfway right, the "next big thing" was there to blow it out of the water.
I could have taken that money spent over the years and bought at least THREE Ketron SD-2s with it.
And not lost so much TIME.
And avoided hassle after hassle when trying to get music work done.
Think it out carefully before spending your hard-earned money.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I second Mac's post although being one to wait until something works, and works well, and gets endorsed I don't usually jump in. I usually use Mac'slab, once I get the endorsement, I open my wallet. I wish he's buy 3 or 4 windcontrollers and write an epistle. I'm stuck with reviews by people who already play one instrument or another and start with a bias.
What I need there is a comparison that's fair, does not come from a sax player, and explains how this fits with my resources, and expectations if I ever manage to iterate them.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Then I'm outta the running, John, as I can at least play some scales and stuff on the saxophone. An old girlfriend left one lying around one day and...
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
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Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
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Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
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Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
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