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twould seem the world has got what i might term
"instant coffee" syndrome.
i'll help anyone ..i really will.
but just this week i'm talkin to a muso i met when i was out n about...
who is ranting bout daw problem stuff
n it was obvious ..twas in the blinkin manual.
i'm really worried that the next generation brought up on guitar hero n
pushing plastic buttons , well...where will all the great true future musicians come from ??
i find with this new generation coming up,....often the following.
1. they want instant hits..they think get the recording gear on friday n be as big as britney by monday.
life aint like that and i try to explain gently that songs are often long gut wrenching work.
2. they couldnt be bothered to even learn the basics of midi or read a midi book.
or read a manual that comes with the gear thery buy.
or understand setting midi channels correctly , yet good ole mum n dad
bought them a 3k synth whose manual they havent even bothered to read. sheeesh.
if someone had bought me a 3k synth i'd be all over the manual in an instant.
3. they buy a slew of gear costing thousands n try n copy big studios without realiseing that
the old carmudgeon AE pro's that built those studios put in their time and graft.
and worked blinkin hard. or lets say..where will the talent of the funk brothers come from ??
yes folks i call it instant coffee syndrome.
this new young generation coming up that i talk to seem to want ..
instant hits, instant speed dateing , instant marriage, instant divorces, instant solutions,
instant studios...but do people wanna put the work into their songs or marriage or relationships ??
hit me with your thoughts.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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... and while you're at it -- Get off my lawn!! (ha, ha).
I wouldn't worry about those coming up. The fascination to create music out of nothing is a strong as it has ever been. Technology advances and changes the way things are done, it is just the way it is.
Kevin
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On top of what Kevin just said, which I agree with, are all those marvelous YouTube videos of youth in music who are exceptional to the extreme.
Paradigms change with each succeeding generation.
But music itself never dies.
--Mac
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If I get ya the manual from a $3k synth, will that keep ya occupied for a while? ..grouchy old bloke .. manning knows I'm kidding him ..  get off my lawn! Yer not getting your ball back, it's mine now! I think I , for one, worried my parents more than these kids are worrying you. They hit the job market, get a healthy dose of reality and adjust.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I hate instant coffee! Who likes a mouthful of powder anyway? I want coffee I can drink; I don't want to chew it 
Last edited by Mike sings; 02/06/10 07:53 AM.
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And what's up with that "all was better in the old days" ? My grandfather gave me his old guitar last week. It was a Tender (?) Stratosomething. He bought it in 1954 and I must say he took really good care of it, there was hardly any signs of use on the thing. Of course he always kept it in the old case he got with it. I went to the local musicstore. I am now the proud owner of a Behringer guitar with USB!!! The shop owner was a really nice guy: he even let me trade in my old guitar and gave me a good price for it! I only had to pay $50 for my brand new guitar. So my new guitar is better than the old one, I can plug it right into my computer. Who said all the old things are better?
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I agree with Mac that every generation has its prodigies. I agree with Kemmrich that changes in technology lead to changes in expectations. I agree with Mike that Instant coffe is awful. I agree with Rharv that life has a way of giving us all a reality wakeup call. <personal rant mode ON> But what Manning says resonates strongly with me. My son and I have often had this same discussion. (mostly about his friends). Instant gratification has led a much larger portion of his generation to unrealistic expectations about how much effort is required to succeed. I think the success of reality shows is tied to this in some way. Such shows (survivor, American Idol etc) are all about the fact that you don't win just because you show up. The sheer number of kids who try out for Idol with absolutely NO TALENT, yet still believe they are worthy of national accolade is jaw-dropping to me. This mentality may be caused by the American school system where everybody gets an A because they don't want to demean anybody's self esteem. But maybe not, if Manning is seeing it in the UK as well. I actually think that it is possible to get to a point where life DOESN'T necessarily give people a wakeup call... and it would happen when there are enough voters whose expectations are out of synch with reality that they would lobby for the state to support them, fully expecting that they have a right to it. <personal rant mode OFF> As a kid,I actually had to get off the old guys lawn and go buy a new whiffle ball. These days they'd probably sue the old man for the ball back plus a million dollars damages for hurting the kids' feelings. ;-)
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There were plenty of "instant gratification" types around in my generation, too.
Some scant few of us actually practiced our chosen instruments and skills -- and went on to become pro or at least semi-pro musicians in the real world.
i can see how it is very likely that Haydn or Mozart could've said the same thing...
Or Satchmo and Miles.
Or McLaughlin and Clapton.
etc.
--Mac
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yeh n its all good and no generation is perfect.
mine had lots of faults like any generation.
and my dads n grandads etc etc.
its just i dont understand young uns blowing 50k on loans for studio gear etc
n then often not bothering to read the manuals.
or wanting to work at it to understand how to use the gear
they bought.
seriously ive actually come across people who think
the gear sorta runs itself.
they even go .."hey phew man...ya mean ive gotta connect up stuff "
rharv..lol...i deserved that.
mebe i'm just an old bugger..lol.
ps..mike..hope ya kept that old strat guitar mate.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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This is one of those "difference in kind" vs "difference in degree" discussions.
I totally agree with your observation that this KIND of thing has always been true.
All cultures contain all the same human traits and tendencies. But each culture is defined by the DEGREE to which it encourages or discourages a behavior.
So here's my point: it appears to be true that western culture is going through a phase in which we not only accept slackness, we have institutionalized it. As long as people have enough money to eat, this will probably continue.
Historically when times get tough, cultures get more rigid and demanding
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Journeyman
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I think the Instant Coffee thing changes with age. I remember in the 70's the other guitarist of the band I was in was really depressed because he was almost 21 and hadn't made it big yet. I was an old man of 24 then.
He kept playing and working and now in his 50's he's been playing all the time all aver the world and has played with many of his musical heros. I know it took a lot of hard work.
He's not a household name but, he is a busy and very talented musician who makes many people happy. Though we only played together a short time I'm glad I knew him.
"Godfey Townsend", look him up. You might like him.
Google him, (Godfey Townsend) he's all over the place. He's still cookin' and I think his best is yet to come.
Wayne,
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Journeyman
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Sorry, one more thing.
I think in my younger days, (60's-70's) it was more who you knew and where you played rather than what equipment you owned. Also we practiced day and night.
Whatever, just an old guy's memory.
Wayne,
Last edited by redguitars; 02/06/10 10:15 AM.
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Not only in music, but in many aspects of life, I see this same type of attitude, and I find it disparaging. When I go to buy something, I usually have the change figured out in my head before the person rings it up, and yet they can't do it by themselves, they need a machine. I've seen, on multiple occasions, someone give me thirty cents in change via three dimes, and in the drawer, the dimes were running low, but the nickles and quarters were full. Did they realize that twenty five cents and a nickle is still thirty cents?
I see teens who drive expensive BMWs, Lexus', or new Toyotas, Scions, Hondas, or whatever. Cars that Mommy and Daddy gave or bought for them. They have the latest, flashiest phones with unlimited minutes for texting, they have the biggest iPods, and yet, I ask them what they are going to do when they get to be 25, and they have no clue what I'm talking about. They look at me like 'huh?' I'll say, what are you going to do to support yourself? A job? Most of them are clueless as to what I mean. Maybe Mommy and Daddy are going to give them a bunch of money, but in this economy, I somehow doubt it.
So, these kids have no concept of reality. I am forced to wonder at what point they will get it.
As to the musicians, I know that I am undereducated when it comes to my musicianship, and there are some people out there who are playing non-professionally who are so much better than I am, but at least I know that. However, I have run into what Manning is talking about, and not only in kids. I find it in adults, as well, and I find that very scary.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Somebody once said much the same thing about YOU, Gary. And me. Sure, we didn't get the Lexus, we had other things that a generation before us viewed as unearned luxuries, though.
Let 'em be kids and they'll grow up one day.
--Mac
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Pat Marr
i see what your saying.
and actually its appropo.
(fyi..i'm a brit , but live in canada..wifey canadian.)
two things.
1. i get the brit papers from the uk occasionally.
interstingly enough they often mention various aspects
of uk life where people often want to put in no effort
to get what they want.
this kinda bears out your point bout "slackness".
2. today after i posted the thread start , someone i know
asked me to set up their puter system.
just couldnt be bothered to set it up.
(even offered to pay me money which i politely declined
cos i dont take advantage. )
to which i replied ..
"how will you ever learn if you dont at least try a little bit yourself". ??
gary.
you made some very good points.
ive seen the same thing many times.
and much more of it in recent years.
like you i realised ages ago there were many far better
musicians than i will ever be.
many many great talents on this site and lots of others.
the sad part is here in canada for example are some exceptional
talents that the general public never hears.
slackness is everywhere if you think about it.
includeing major radio stations that stick to old known
formats and refuse to give airplay to highly talented
unknowns that are in abundance in lots of countries.
what saddens me is some young uns that both have the talent and the drive
are often dissuaded cos of the barriers often to them breaking through to
major media outlets.
other examples of slackness might include manufacturers that ship various
tech gear that isnt debugged. friends of mine have had probs with
everything from tv's thru sound devices for example.
when i was growing up in uk...my parents were good and kind.
but just didnt have lots of dough. compared to today.
so it was often "make do" etc etc.
so when i was at uni in the 60's n some of the rich kids drove bmw's ..
i trundled around on a 50 quid moped..lol.
gimme an instant coffee..lol.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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This has been one of several thought-provoking threads today. Thanks to all who participated with intelligent counter-points-of-view on each of the threads.
Made my day. Y'all are some very smart men. I consider myself fortunate to hear and evaluate your thoughts and insights.
;-)
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I frequent a Belgian home-recording forum. Nice place, visited by all kinds of people. From starters to seasoned pros. They have fantastic -how-to-get-started- and beginners guides. Here one can find all the basics on home recording. What is home recording, What is a DAW, What hardware do I need? What software do I need? Examples of starter sets. New members are asked to read them before posting their question; chances are they'll find their answers in those guides. Yet, one of the most posted questions is: I am a hiphop artist and I want to record my beats and my raps. What do I need? When a forum member kindly points to the how-to-get-started guide (with all the basics on home recording), the answer of the original poster is more often than not: Yes, I saw the guide, but it's such a long piece to read. Just tell me what I need. That was what I asked! Oh, btw: Of course the Fender-story isn't true 
Last edited by Mike sings; 02/07/10 06:17 AM.
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Anybody want a good deal on a vintage Ferden Sortacaster?
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Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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