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Hi Folks!
There are way too many options, switches, settings, and methods for either BIAB or RB for me to figure this out for myself. Even searching the forums returns so much data I can't sift through it all.
I thought that what I want to do is pretty simple, but maybe not. For the music I work with, I can get rehearsal printed band leadsheets (Finale chord notation with melody and lyrics) and an MP3, but not a MIDI file. What I want to do is adlib along with the MP3 and record my MIDI output to create music notation. The notation produced could be its own printed output, or somehow shown along with a leadsheet printout.
There appear to be many ways to try and import or convert an MP3 to MIDI that will generate chord notation, but the output is often radically different than the printed rehearsal leadsheet - and of course the melody line isn't shown. This means I end up editing the converted output to the point that it takes almost as long as just entering it from scratch, copying from my rehearsal printout. For some reason, the resulting audio and notation don't seem to match up during playback - like the chord changes occuring on the display are out of sync with what you hear in the audio. Furthermore, when I try to put the Real Band created output (from MP3 to MIDI conversion) in BIAB lots of the chords I had entered/edited disappear.
Maybe I'm going about this the hard way, and it would be simpler to just listen to the MP3 while recording a MIDI solo track. However, I don't understand how this will translate to printed music with the correct time sig/beat/note/measure notation. I also want to be able to work on (edit) specific passages and try different things until I get the phrase I want to use as part of the final recording and printed sheet music.
I originally tried getting the rehearsal Finale docs and opening them with Songwriter thinking that I could do something with the MIDI and melody lines from it, but that doesn't work because Songwriter won't open Finale files. Can somebody provide some guidance on the best way to solve my problem? I'm running BIAB 2009.5, along with RB and the other bits and pieces you get for around $100. In addition, I have Cubase LE. I have an AKAI EWI4000S wind controller, a couple of soundbanks (Yamaha VL-70M & Roland XV-2020), a small mixer (UB802), and a Zoom H4.
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If the program can export as .MID file, that's the way to move things from program to program.
MIDI is relatively easy for notation as every note played has a piece of note-on data that also defines exactly that note.
Trying to do that from an mp3 file is very problematic.
However, playing back the mp3 file while you play the keyboard or other MIDI controller and record the notes as MIDI data is a quick way to get the notation. One must first set the program to the right Key signature and also the Tempo to the same aprox BPM as the song to do this. Here is where the ACW can help out, it can almost always get the correct song layout and Tempo if not the correct chords in every bar.
--Mac
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Are these 'known' songs. Post a list. Might be able to go from there.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Thanks for info and quick reply! These are custom arrangements of popular contemporary Christian music. Sometimes a phrase is left out, the key is changed, or an intro or ending is modified. I've been trying to get the MIDI's from the composer, but no luck yet. He doesn't mind giving them to me, but he's so busy he never gets around to packing up the MIDI's and emailing them to me. What's ACW - something chord wizard? Is that in BIAB or RB? Are you talking about importing an MP3 here?
The composer uses Finale and he's given me a couple of those files to work with, but his version is 2008 or later. I bought Songwriter just to work with his Finale files in mid 2009, so that was shipped as the 2007 version - which won't open/read later versions. Now they've released Songwriter 2010 but they don't have an upgrade path from 2007 (even though there's one for Notepad) - you just have to buy it full price. By the time I do that, I could have just bought PrintMusic for the same money. However, these products don't seem to do a very good job of capturing and notating MIDI - at least not from my wind controller. BIAB is much better at this task. Not to mention, by the time the Songwriter 2010 version was released I'd already bought BIAB thinking it could do the job.
It just seems that if you had a quick method of doing this using an MP3 that it would be the most portable solution and would apply to anything you'd want to work with.
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ACW = Audio Chord Wizard. If you open the pdf file manual (Help >> Display Program Manual), how to use it is found on page 228. There's also a section on notation pp 183 - 215.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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I think this is what I tried when the chords translated all wonky (key sig was the same, but notation seldom matched the leadsheet) and during the playback they didn't advance in sync with the recorded audio. The measure count was also off by 20-30 bars, but maybe that was a difference between the original artist's performance that I used as MP3 input versus the arrangement leadsheet. I'll try again and see what happens, thanks!
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If you don't set the bar line as the first task everything will be wrong.
It can work, it takes work to make it work.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I want to try something different. Instead of converting an MP3 to chords, I want to create a project where I simply import the MP3 into it as audio, then input/record MIDI with it as it plays. Basically my notated output now is just going to be my MIDI solo, without the chords of the audio track. Of course I need to hear the audio track playing and what MIDI I'm creating at the same time, and in sync. This has got to be a simple thing, but I swear I can't figure it out. I've got a MIDI to USB adapter that's connected directly to my windcontroller, and I've imported the MP3 as audio without trying to do any chord detection. I can hear the MIDI coming out of the PC headphone jack as I play my wind controller, and I can play the audio track that I pulled in from the MP3 and hear it over the PC headphones - but I can't get BIAB to record the MIDI and play back the audio at the same time and output to the headphones. Now what?
Maybe I should just playback the MP3 using my flash MP3 player, monitoring it and the audio out from the wind controller, and record the wind controller MIDI output in BIAB by itself - would that be better?
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Y'know, I'm a computer network engineer with 30 years of experience and I work with all kinds of complex systems and software packages every day - and BIAB continues to totally confuse me. It makes me feel like an idiot. I've spent countless hours trying to figure it out and have still come up with absolutely nothing usable for what I'm trying to do. There are so many options and different ways to do things that I just can't get any traction.
I can't do the simplest thing - just record a MIDI track from an external MIDI controller. I would think that whenever you hit the record button you'd see something happening in a window somewhere (preferably one that would pop-up when recording starts), like a waveform or notation being created. After I record for awhile and stop, I can't even find what I've recorded to work with it. I've tried looking at a notation window while recording, but nothing appears. Is there a tutorial somewhere on how to record MIDI, view or modify it, and create notation for your recording?
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**When you play your MIDI Wind Controller, do you see the keys on the upper keyboard for the Thru part highlighting the notes you are playing?**
If not, then the MIDI input is not getting to the program.
What selections are available to you in the BiaB MIDI/Audio... window (in the Options menu) on the Lefthand side? List all of them you see, please.
Also, the choice or MIDI Output Synth plus use of ASIO sound drivers is likely to be important here, too. One step at a time.
As for being a network engineer, that's a good starting point to come from. But -- Making music with a PC is really a completely different thing altogether. There is a learning curve, but nothing that you should not be able to handle. We all went through that curve at some time or other. And it never ends, as new Operating Systems, new developments, new hardware, new software, the whole nine yards keeps us on our toes. The PC was never designed with what we do in mind. And the market share is so small that we have to be the ones to find out what to do to make it work. This forum is chock full of helpful people who are about sharing that kind of data, so you are in the right place. Don't get discouraged, what you want to do, I do every day. One step at a time will get you there.
--Mac
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OK - some good progress. Thanks for the sanity check. I have one of these little MIDIMAN USB1X1 boxes, and it was configured properly for Cubase input, but I hadn't set it up in BIAB. I set it to thru, and monitored the audio playback of the imported MP3 from the PC, and the MIDI I was creating actually from the audio out of the wind controller. I'm using onboard synths from the wind controller for this, and didn't want to have any delay issues with the MIDI playback on the PC. Plus, the wind controller synths sound much better than the PC and are optimized for breath control.
So I imported the MP3, turned off the style, set the key and BPM, and started recording in Melody mode. When finished I had a leadsheet with just a single staff, and my notes. I got rid of the tuples from notation by unchecking the triplet resolution, and also set notation to CLEAN. I selected trumpet for the Melody voice, and could hear my recorded MIDI playing back in sync with the imported audio.
I'm getting very close now, and have just a few more questions.
1) How do you insert rests into the notation? There were some measures where it extended notes and tied them together when really there was silence between them. I'd like to make these notate the way they were actually played, but couldn't figure out how to edit that.
2) After you've saved a take, how can you jump to a point on the imported audio and re-record just certain parts of the MIDI? I don't see a slider or REW/FFWD function. For instance, there was a solo on the audio track in the beginning, and then nothing until another solo on the bridge. I couldn't figure out how to just stop recording immediately after the first solo, save that, then jump ahead and start recording at the next solo. Every time I tried to record it always went back to the beginning of the audio. I ended up having to record the entire song as a single take.
I also got a few weird notes on playback where there would be a note stuck on throughout the playback, playing over the recorded MIDI. Once it started doing this, the only way I could get it to stop was to exit BIAB and go back in. Any ideas?
Oh, I also need to know how to insert empty measures in the notation as well.
Thanks for your patience and help!
Last edited by geekdout; 02/09/10 08:33 PM.
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I think you'll find that there are some great streaming video tutorials that explain this much better than the spoken word. The program manual also covers this (Help >> Display Program Manual). Videos are located via this link. The one that I'd start with is about 1/2 way down the page and is called, "Band In A Box 2007.5: Editable Notation". Because the development of BIAB is additive, what you can do in 2007.5 is still pretty much the same in 2010. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Quote:
1) How do you insert rests into the notation? There were some measures where it extended notes and tied them together when really there was silence between them. I'd like to make these notate the way they were actually played, but couldn't figure out how to edit that.
In the Notation Window (NOT the Leadsheat view. punch the sihgole 8th note icon on the toolbar to enter Noatation Window) you must first set it to Editable Notation mode by punching the little grid on the LH side of the top bar of the Noatation Window.
Then you must select "Rest" by checking it in that same bar to use the mouse to click on just the right spot between those two notes that are tied to create a rest there. BiaB will automatically fill in the right type of rest.
You can change the Duration of notes and Rests by RightClicking on one and picking "Edit Note" and use the little Duration window and spinners in the window that opens.
Quote:
2) After you've saved a take, how can you jump to a point on the imported audio and re-record just certain parts of the MIDI?
When you hit the Record button, there is a little window that opens. Set for Punch In recording and enter the bars where you want to "punch in" -- BB will only record during the bars entered. You can also select Punch In recording from one of the menus.
Quote:
I also got a few weird notes on playback where there would be a note stuck on throughout the playback, playing over the recorded MIDI. Once it started doing this, the only way I could get it to stop was to exit BIAB and go back in. Any ideas?
Notes that overlap can do that. Easy to spot these usually, when not in Clean Notation mode. Use the Note Editor to change start times or durations as necessary to shorten the first note so that it does not overlap with the second note and thus keep on sounding like that.
Quote:
Oh, I also need to know how to insert empty measures in the notation as well.
That must be done in the Chord Grid view. Edit -> Insert bars. This is so the whole thing matches in number of bars. You would likely want to enter chords in those extra bars also so the autoaccompaniment keeps up.
And watch those video tutorials!
--Mac
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THANKS! I was about ready to advertise on Craigslist for a tutor!
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Great info, Mac - I'll start working with the info you gave me today.
I had tried to punch in using the method you described, but it didn't seem to work. That is, it appeared to overwrite my previous saved take in places where I hadn't asked it to record. That's when I started getting stuck notes. I'll save a copy of what I have now and try it again. Also, just because you've set it to record at specific measures, do you have to wait for the audio to play from the beginning and reach that point? When I told BIAB that I wanted to record beginning at measure 55, the audio started from the first measure. I assumed I had to then just wait until the audio reached where I wanted to record and input MIDI then, that it would ignore any MIDI entered before measure 55. It would sure be faster if the audio and recording would start right where you wanted, or maybe just a couple of measures ahead.
The only reason I need to add blank measures at the beginning of the song is because that anytime I record from the beginning, there's a two measure count-in with ticks before BIAB starts recording. I've been trying to turn that off so that MIDI recording starts immediately when the audio begins, but I haven't found the right setting to do that.
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Opts Prefs count-in. Set to off or silent. I often leave it in and take the end result to Audacity and just cut it out. 2 seconds of work. Then add a fade in and fade out, and in less than a minute render to mp3.
Audacity is free. Just download the lame encoder for it and tell Audacity where it is the first time and you are good to go. Other effects there too.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I've used Audacity for a few thinks and I like it. However, I'm not trying to produce a song to play back or distribute (yet). I'm just trying to notate what I improvise when I'm following a leadsheet or play along with an MP3. This allows me to work up better, more consistent phrases and leads to use as a foundation at band rehearsals and performances. Plus, my hand notation is horrible and even I can't read what I've scrawled on a leadsheet. If I don't write it down or record it, I can't remember what I did later - for a repeat during the same song or another day. I'm hoping that the end result of my efforts with BIAB is a base library of fills and solos that I can re-use or enhance whenever we perform the song again, and maybe something my composer buddy can build on later when scoring these songs for horns or orchestra, if he hasn't done that yet.
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So if you don't use the lyrics functions stick your notes in there. I almost always have the Melody track Muted or saved at 0 so in that case even if you use the note editing function to stick some meaningless whole notes in the thing you put in stuff like I do as in harmony change to unison coming up at verse, or set keyboard to B3 emulation for bar 30....
John Conley
Musica est vita
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So at rehearsal tonight my composer friend wanted to know if BIAB would import Finale XML. The advantage would be that it would pull in the Finale leadsheet lyrics, too. I don't think so, but maybe somebody could give me a definitive answer.
When I print the MIDI I've created and notated now, it's just the single part all by itself. This is better than nothing if I can't get the Finale MIDI files. I think I can live without the lyrics if I have the melody, but it would be great to see my leads and fills integrated with a chord notated leadsheet with the original Finale melody and the measure numbers intact. If I don't want to use ACW and spend time cleaning it up or entering the chords by hand, I'll need the Finale leadsheet MIDI files to do this.
If I continue to make do with just the notated MIDI part by itself, I'm going to need to modify the printout format a little - it's too big. I'd like to shrink the actual print output so that maybe I could physically cut and paste it into a Finale leadsheet, like between the staves. I'm not talking about the notation view in a BIAB window, which I figured out how to resize. How can you make the measure and notes overall smaller on the printout?
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BiaB does not support Finale XML. It is on the Wishlist, you might add your name to that and maybe in the future...
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