Is it possible to have a different RealTracks generated soloist for selected bars using the 'Soloist' track. For example: RealTracks Clarinet solo bars 1-8, RealTracks Acoustic Guitar solo bars 9-16 and RealTracks Trumpet solo bars 17-24.
I've tried so many things following searching without any luck.
You're gonna' hate me because the answer is Yes and No.
Yes because you can use the F5 bar settings to assign different soloists to different bars. Using your example at bar 1 you assign a clarinet soloist, at bar 9 an acoustic guitar soloist and a trumpet soloist at bar 17.
No because regeneration is all or nothing in Band-in-a-Box. If you like the acoustic guitar soloist but don't like the clarinet or trumpet then what are you going to do?
One way around this dilemma is to use the Band-in-a-Box audio recorder to record the audio you want to keep, regenerate until you get another soloist you like, record that audio and use the Band-in-a-Box audio merge feature to combine parts.
To make things easier, record the instrument tracks like bass, drums and piano, make the recording a performance track and move the performance track to one of the no longer needed bass, drums or piano track. That leaves the two other tracks for soloists.
Please accept my apologies and with regard to your last option:
[Quote] ..... record the instrument tracks like bass, drums and piano, make the recording a performance track and move the performance track to one of the no longer needed bass, drums or piano track. [Unquote]
Would you kindly be able to give me a step-by-step on this. I've spent the best part of a morning trying to do this without success. All I've achieved is to render the instruments to an external audio file.
I think you mean to record the instruments directly in Band-in-a-Box audio track which I've failed to do. Also I'm unsure how to make an audio file into a performance file. I'm also unable to remove tracks from the Mixer despite following the delete tracks process.
Jim actually recently learned this process from me and it's a combination of two BIAB Features used in conjunction with each other. In my opinion, it's the most powerful tool combination available to the musician that relies on BIAB to provide audio instrument recordings into a project they can either not play the instrument, they can play the instrument but the BIAB session player can play it better or circumstances are such that it's more convenient for a proficient player to use a BIAB RealTrack although having the ability to play the performance. It provides a method to create very complex track arrangements on par with any DAW without the need to leave the BIAB project for another software programs to achieve these results.
Jim expanded your question into two answers which aren't necessarily related. I'll separate the two answers for clarity. His instructions to your question is it possible to have a different RealTracks generated soloist for selected bars using the 'Soloist' track. For example: RealTracks Clarinet solo bars 1-8, RealTracks Acoustic Guitar solo bars 9-16 and RealTracks Trumpet solo bars 17-24?
- Yes - Fortunately, once demonstrated, it's both simple to do and easy to access.
The BIAB Mixer has Seven Channels plus an Audio Channel. Each of the Seven Channels in the BIAB Mixer can have up to 10 RealTracks! PG Music developers made some dramatic enhancements to this feature in 2019 and 2020 and to date, the feature is not well known which results in it being mostly underused. At some point, I recommend you (and any others interested) watch the 2019 and 2020 New Features videos that are locked at the top of the BIAB for Windows Forum. PG Music staff markets and describes this feature as both Medleys and Thickening. The 10 instruments on each track can be programmed to change sequentially by number of bars, part markers or Chorus. The instruments can be volume automated, panned and muted. The instruments can be programmed to play independently or simultaneously. Medleys are accessed from the RealTrack Page/ Medleys Button.
A new window opens and just follow the easy instructions and choices. Alternately, Medleys can be manually programmed from the Bar Settings Menu/RealTracks Button near the top of the Bar Settings window. Jim explained how to manually use the Bar Settings menu to select and place RealTrack instruments at the desired bars of your song. As you see, the math is easy: Seven Channels each with 10 RealTrack instruments allows a single render of a BIAB song to have a total of Seventy instruments!
The -No- portion of Jim's answer involves the second tool of the combination. It's called the Artist Performance Track and when combined with the Medley's feature allows BIAB to function as a digital 8 channel multi track recorder and creates a method for BIAB to have nearly an unlimited number of virtual tracks and sub mixes to use in a BIAB project or can be used in any DAW. PG Music uses the term Artist Performance track twice for two different features. One is actual 'artists's performing over BIAB accompaniment tracks for entertainment and educational tutorials while the other are User created performance tracks. The educational Artist Performance Tracks are simply one way to use a User Artist Performance Track. Jim's alluding to recording RealTracks to the Audio Channel and free Mixer Channels to be used again in a project is another use for them. To do that, select a combination of BIAB Mixer tracks you want to combine into a stereo audio sub mix and render export the mix. Then, import that sub mixed stereo track onto the BIAB Audio Track and from the Audio Menu at the top of the Chord Page, select Move Audio to a Performance Track. When you select, a window will open allowing you to choose the BIAB Mixer Channel to place the sub mix as an Artist Performance Track. This is the method PG Music developed to allow audio other than RealTracks to reside onto a BIAB Mixer Channel other than the single Audio Channel. Although, there's only one Audio Channel, it can be used over and over and sub mixes created so a project can have hundreds of instruments on dozens of channels. Programming your song in this manner also internally accesses BIAB built in programming for fade in's and fade out's and smooth transitions between instrument changes.
Don't be put off by what appears to be an overwhelming amount of tracks and instruments. Those type numbers are also available on any $100 hardware stand alone 4 track recorder. It's the result of a technique that's literally been around since the earliest days of multi track recording. The difference is how easy BIAB makes it to generate dozens of high quality instruments over my song's chord progression just like a real session musician would. Keeping your project in BIAB gives you access to each and every feature of BIAB which is something even RealBand can't do and no other DAW in existence comes close.
I've explained APT's (User Artist Performance Tracks) in more detail in the User Track Forum post "The Case for Artist Performance Tracks".
yes but its even easier in RealBand. select the track, select the bars you want with the 'from to' fields and then choose your RealTrack soloist. you can even use mutiriffs to get different versions to audition and choose. then select the next section of bars and do the same again using a different soloist.
once you've got a song roughed out, RealBand is the easiest way to add bells and whistles.
BIAB is the first stage. to get some things done in BIAB you need to go through complicated stages when in RealBand its easy and simple.
As Charlie says it's possible to stay in BIAB but it's much simpler in RealBand. But each to their own - I just find it easier to swap to BIAB's sister program designed to do all (well nearly all) the things a DAW can do with the functionality of BIAB still available.
I agree with Bob Calver This process inside BiaB is a bunch of convoluted and confusing steps to me (sorry) Doing the same thing in Realband is a walk in the park. You bought Realband when you bought BiaB .. no cost to you to try it <grin>
Use BiaB to get your idea down (figure out chords, tempo, style) Then open that same file in Realband and expand on the ideas First of all you get 48 tracks in Realband, and you can cut/copy/paste/generate any sections of those 48 tracks you want. Basically you have 40 more 'Soloist' tracks to work with.
You can select the solo section and try a sax, guitar, flute and washboard .. then figure what parts you want from each .. or redo them all again until you get a solo you like .. without affecting any other tracks. It is so much easier there.
The caveat is once you start down the RB path you'll want to use the SEQ file format for saving so you retain all this data, which means going back to BiaB means going back to where you were when you left BiaB.
That said, I never find myself needing to go back to BiaB.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
<<< Is it possible to have a different RealTracks generated soloist for selected bars using the 'Soloist' track?" >>>
I'm tempted to offer a prize to see if anyone will answer the actual question asked. <grin>
It's specific, multiple RealTracks on the 'Soloist' track on the BIAB Mixer.
I agree with Bob Calver This process inside BiaB is a bunch of convoluted and confusing steps to me (sorry) Doing the same thing in Realband is a walk in the park. You bought Realband when you bought BiaB .. no cost to you to try it <grin>
Really? Let's compare.
Use BiaB to get your idea down (figure out chords, tempo, style) Check Then open that same file in Realband and expand on the ideas And --- Wait for RB to open Wait for RB to activate Wait for RB to load the BIAB tracks Wait for RB to regenerate new tracks you don't necessarily want because here we must mention once you start down the RB path all the BIAB tracks are regenerated and the 'original tracks' don't carry over from BIAB.
First of all you get 48 tracks in Realband, and you can cut/copy/paste/generate any sections of those 48 tracks you want. Basically you have 40 more 'Soloist' tracks to work with. Not really. You can 'see' 40 more tracks but you can have the same amount tracks to work with BIAB that you use in RB.
You can select the solo section and try a sax, guitar, flute and washboard .. then figure what parts you want from each .. or redo them all again until you get a solo you like .. without affecting any other tracks.
Ditto BIAB
It is so much easier there.
Not really. Actually, the ease of use can be the same in both BIAB and RB but only after you've gone through the unnecessary time to open RB, load the BIAB file, wait for activation and regeneration and lost all of your original BIAB tracks.
In both BIAB and RB, you can open the Stylemaker, filter and select a Style with Medleys, generate and play. Voila, multiple RealTracks Soloists across select bars on the Soloist track. Done. Fast, simple and no convolution.
I'm tempted to offer a prize to see if anyone will answer the actual question asked. <grin>
It's specific, multiple RealTracks on the 'Soloist' track on the BIAB Mixer.
Hi Charlie,
My approach above let's a person do that if they want. It's just a matter of selecting different RTs and then setting their range of bars using the "Custom" function.
I still agree with those who say it's easier in Realband. In RB, it's just a matter of selecting the bars one wants to have a solo in, select the RT and then generate. It takes all of about 10-20 seconds for partial regenerations.
Also, I just tried opening Realband and loading one of 3:30 minute songs. It took about 30 seconds to load and to generate all the tracks.
its all personal preference Charlie but i don't have a problem with loading and waiting times with RB. and as rharv says if you save as seq files you get all the changes saved. you know BIAB inside out but for those of us who learnt BIAB in the early days then used PowerTracks as the next stage for editing midi (it was only midi in those days) moving from BIAB to RB is easy and seamless. what is 'under the hood' (as i think they say in the USA) with BIAB is in plain view in RB. still i hope the OP finds this discussion useful and finds a way to make thge music he likes with advice from all of us
I'm tempted to offer a prize to see if anyone will answer the actual question asked. <grin>
It's specific, multiple RealTracks on the 'Soloist' track on the BIAB Mixer.
Hi Charlie,
My approach above let's a person do that if they want. It's just a matter of selecting different RT's and then setting their range of bars using the "Custom" function.
I still agree with those who say it's easier in RealBand. In RB, it's just a matter of selecting the bars one wants to have a solo in, select the RT and then generate. It takes all of about 10-20 seconds for partial regenerations.
Also, I just tried opening RealBand and loading one of 3:30 minute songs. It took about 30 seconds to load and to generate all the tracks.
Regards, Noel
I don't disagree at all with you or the others. Each of you have given good answers and your answer is just one of several ways to do the task in BIAB. I also agree that even with several different ways to complete the task in BIAB, the preferred method seems to be to move the project to RealBand or a DAW. In fact, this past January, Dr. Gannon posted just after one of my rants on doing it in BIAB that RB was specifically developed to work with BIAB to do all of these advanced editing DAW features. So that, along with the lack of interest, questions and discussion posts that reference the true power of BIAB, I had slacked off my Do it in BIAB crusade.
In this post, time was not really the issue I was addressing but rather the lack of necessity and lack of convenience gained by moving the project to RB simply to generate a multi instrument solo track by redirecting the task solution out of BIAB. There are multiple ways to do this in BIAB that are both quick and simple and give you the control of volume automation, panning, changing by bar count, part marker or chorus and whether to have instruments play sequentially or simultaneously. My first point is these multiple ways are included in BIAB, including yours, and are neither workarounds nor convoluted. Second is that the 30 seconds to a minute it takes to open RB and load and generate a BIAB file is wasted time and unnecessary for the task regardless of the length of time it is. BIAB results are equal in quality to doing it in RB. Plus doing it in BIAB retains the current rendition that will be lost in the transition of the project into RealBand. In both 2019 and 2020 versions PG Music made significant enhancements to the Medley feature and created additional new Medleys Styles. They also introduced one variation of using this feature with "thickening". What the poster is asking is designed to be done in BIAB and with recent enhancements making it more versatile than prior versions but most replies read more into the question, anticipating the user being unsatisfied with the initial results or wanting more than what he asked for.
I posted my reply initially because at this point and time, I believe I'm more skilled and experienced with the process than Jim and felt I could better clarify the original posters confusion with Jim's reply to his initial question. Jim had experimented with combining Medleys and APT's without much success until I spent some time coaching him recently and filled some of the gaps for him. Once understanding, Jim's acceptance of the process and excitement to use and promote the process increased dramatically. Most of my answer to the -yes- was relevant to the process and the -no- portion dealt solely with where Jim expanded his answer to. There was a lot more information than necessary to answer the posters actual question. My last post listed the simple, easy method obtained with several clicks.
It's true that serious projects are better suited to be done using BIAB and a DAW, accompaniment tracks, songwriting, practicing, teaching, soundtracks, really any project except for those intended for commercial release are suitable to be done using nothing other than BIAB.
Absolutely and I'm fine with that. I use RealBand, Audacity and Studio One Pro as needed and have cakewalk and Ableton Live and Pro-Tools if I want them. I also have several proprietary DAW's on hardware multi track recorders but that wasn't what the question was about. I'm happy we're able to have the discussion about BIAB. I think the discussion is important and relevant to beginners more so than intermediate and advanced users. The wish list forum has plenty of requests from experienced users for tasks that are already easy and accessible in BIAB but they never learned how to do them in BIAB and also they have no interest to learn. They already know how to do it in RealBand, Reaper, or some other DAW but for whatever reason, they want the function in BIAB accessible by a button.
Any user experienced with hardware multi track recorders can quickly learn to complete a project in BIAB from start to finish and the result will be indistinguishable between the BIAB product and the hardware device. Using BIAB as a digital multi track recorder is much more powerful than any of the stand alone hardware units. Commercial releases are still being done daily on hardware digital multi track recorders and the same is possible with BIAB. That being said, I've not seen a single person do one yet and I think some that would try maybe are being swayed by experienced users indicating a task can't be done or they need to expand their workflow into a DAW to do it right rather than use BIAB. There have been three separate threads that have evolved along these lines in just the past few weeks. I no longer crusade for the power of BIAB but think it's only fair that users should be able to determine their workflow personal preferences with accurate information rather than redirection toward the popular pathway using incorrect information.
At some point, I recommend you (and any others interested) watch the 2019 and 2020 New Features videos that are locked at the top of the BIAB for Windows Forum..
I wish I'd looked at that/those at the start but ... I'm effectively new to BIAB, so I ignored the "What's New" videos because I knew very little of what's old (I'd previously tried in 2013 and gave up on it then) so started with the Video tutorials.
There's almost an hour of information there!
The 2019 video now appears removed from the forum but is in the archive section of the videos. A further 50 minutes.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
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