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Sorry, but this is one topic that REALLY makes me angry.
First, just because there is a law for something doesn't make it right!<...> Ed
Bugs me too.
But so do a lot of other laws.
Write your government representatives and if they don't back you up, don't vote for them again.
It's the only power we have, and most of the US ignores that power. The big corporations do not ignore it, and that is why our country is run by big corporations instead of the people.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Do you know how many musicians have been put out of work because a club or small venue can't afford to pay the music Mafia Fee?
I would say no good musicians have been put out of work by laws requiring that songwriters be compensated for the use of their work. There are probably marginal clubs that can't afford to pay licensing fees but they can't afford the fees because they can't compete in the marketplace and don't have enough customers. The musicians that don't get to play there are not good enough to find employement elsewhere at the clubs that are doing well. I'm not going to shed any tears for them.
Keith 2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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As long as the lobby groups can pay unlimited funds to politicians nothing will change.
Right now a big argument is afoot over the main Bridge between Detroit and Windsor. It was bought by a Detroit family around the time of the depression, and they are now billionaires. Now the problem, the governments want to make a 2nd bridge away from the other for security reasons. But on the American side, the billionaires can basically buy the votes, make as big a donation to them as they want.
In Canada no politician can take ANY money, except about 1k from an actual person. So according to the articles in the paper, the process south of the border is mired in money politics. Fix that end and you at least can have fair discussions. Right now the elected official can just sit and decide what way to vote based on who's got the deepest pockets. And they can make TV commercials, well you get the idea. No system is perfect, and heaven knows some of our politicians end up golfing at exclusive resorts eating filet mignon and drinking cognac, but that's very much the exception.
John Conley Musica est vita
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I would say no good musicians have been put out of work by laws requiring that songwriters be compensated for the use of their work. There are probably marginal clubs that can't afford to pay licensing fees but they can't afford the fees because they can't compete in the marketplace and don't have enough customers. The musicians that don't get to play there are not good enough to find employement elsewhere at the clubs that are doing well. I'm not going to shed any tears for them.
Couldn't agree more, Keith. I just did a Valentine's gig dressed in a tux at a big resort in Palm Springs. Maybe 200 mostly well dressed people. I get gigs like that because I'm a pro and the resort can afford to pay the fees. A bunch of yahoo blues players who basically make their living as dope dealers and all they can manage is a gig at the Dew Drop Inn off the highway in the middle of nowhere, are not. Please people, don't start about all the good completely pro blues players out there, you guys know who I'm talking about here. The fees are not stopping pros from getting work although the idea of busting someone who posts a song on a small restricted musicians forum is a bit much but whattaygonnado?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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If you really want to know what puts musicians out of work more than everything else combined, I'll tell you. Television.My mother-in-law was telling me than in her days, all they had was tinny sounding radio or black and white TV with even tinnier sounding audio. To get quality entertainment, they actually had to get dressed and go somewhere. Tinny audio and B&W images just didn't make it. Now we have - huge screen HDTV
- with 7.1 surround sound and
- a Cable or Satellite subscription that can easily run over $200.00 a month.
For most people, that's their entire entertainment budget. Plus the sound quality is good, and the picture is huge, clear and in color. The result: People don't have the money left to go out, and they can get entertained at home. So while the big stars and corporations are raking in huge bucks; the local musician, theater, and other entertainment providers are hurting. Plus the TV is an addicting drug. - it's addicting, try going "cold turkey" and see if you don't get withdrawal symptoms
- the drug users cannot tell the difference between the drug state and reality -- ask any actor/actress who plays an evil person on TV, when they go out in public, people call them names as if they were the character they are playing on TV
- like any drug, it requires more and more stimulation to get the rush - we've gone from "Leave It To Beaver" to "Sex In The City" - 'nuff said.
And if you stay home glued to the tube instead of going out to hear local, live entertainment, you are part of the problem. I have no idea how to solve this problem. I haven't watched TV since the mid 1980s (and didn't watch much before that) and that hasn't made a dent in the viewership. How to get others to do the same is beyond me. I apologize for the rant. Back to the subject. Copyright laws. Why is it that if I come up with a cure for cancer, I'll get a patent that will last less than 20 years but if a kid writes a one chord song with a total of 6 different words, the copyright will last 75 years after the kid dies. So if the kid is 15 and lives to be 90, the copyright can last 150 years. This tells me that the one chord, 6 word song is much more important than a cure for cancer. IMHO the copyright laws are simply too excessive. I agree we need copyright laws, but not this severe. How to fix it? I have no idea. TV (the drug that is an advertising medium disguised as an entertainment medium) is owned by huge corporations that are interested in keeping you from drawing "Mickey Mouse" without paying a royalty (for example) so they are going to use their brainwashing power to resist any change to the contrary. OK, so I'm still ranting ;-) If anybody has any ideas on how to fix the broken system, let me know. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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We sat last night in front of the TV, faced with a serious problem. I was recording the Lakers basketball game and my wife and daughter wanted to watch American Idol, and Lost at the same time. Hhmmm.. what to do? If we watch Idol, we have to record Lost, and you can't record two shows and watch a third with our system. Seriously do we need to be that entertained!?!?!
I think we have become far to reliant on The TV set.
I hardly ever just read, or do anything constructive. Even my music has slowed down, since the house we moved to has a small office off the dining area, where i keep my stuff, and that might interfere with the TV watching. Notes pointed out the transformation from leave it to Beaver to Sex in the city. there in lies another problem, there is nothing decent to watch, but we still watch it. Feeding our minds with crap that does not make us better people, but encourages us to accept crap as normal.
As far as the cure for cancer in comparison to the battle over copyrights, cancer is a tougher battle, and so far beyond our full understanding. Copyrights are well. there are so many views how does one get to middle ground. I don't knoiw but if i had a hit song i might find it flattering of a bunch of folks in coffee shops and small bars sang it and people like it. In fact it might encourage more album sales in some ways.
Bob, you old rascal, you have inspired me. I think i might tune out from the old TV and get some other things done, read a book, build something, play a tune or two. ..
Right after the results show for Idol is over.!!!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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We sat last night in front of the TV, faced with a serious problem. I was recording the Lakers basketball game and my wife and daughter wanted to watch American Idol, and Lost at the same time. Hhmmm.. what to do? If we watch Idol, we have to record Lost, and you can't record two shows and watch a third with our system. Seriously do we need to be that entertained!?!?!
Yeah, the thing is we don't have classic settee's or pure couches suitable for having people over for good conversation any more. We all have what's basically big overstuffed couchbeds that we can flop in and go to sleep while watching whatever. I have all my music stuff in the bedroom so I have to make an actual commitment to sit up straight and get some work done. Sometimes it's not easy, I have all those nice comfy pillows in the livingroom...
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Educational Television -- Turn the thing around, unplug it and unscrew the back, let the kids stare at the components in there, they might actually learn something of value!
--Mac
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This has been a super informative thread...but I am very disturbed about some of the results; for example, I have a singing bird (somewhat like the one Jerry Reed sang about in his song "The Bird") but mine is not as talented as his. In particular, it can only sing parts of various tunes (but each include some melody) including Happy Birthday, but, wow, now I find out and I quote: 'If you sing "Happy Birthday" at a private birthday party, you are in violation of the law' (I believe Notes pointed this out).
My bird usually sings in the presence of whatever visitors we have, so based on what I now understand from this thread, my bird could "go to the clink", right? Does anyone want to buy a bird...cheap? I wonder if the singing dogs we've seen on Letterman and (previously) Leno had to pay a royalty (seriously)? Actually, I guess the animal (or bird) owners along with their talented pets would, both, go to the clink in these situations if royalties were not handled properly, right? Hopefully, they could share the same cell!!
I gotta shower and go to work...I've just got to remember to sing (or whistle) low enough in the shower not to be heard....on second thought I'll just sing (or whistle) rhythm to something indistinguishable to be safe.
Thanks for everyone's insight into all this...have a great day but be careful with your humming in the workplace, cchallum
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I wonder if the singing dogs we've seen on Letterman and (previously) Leno had to pay a royalty (seriously)?
TV shows, like live club venues, like radio shows, pay set fees for licensing based on audience size. This covers whatever songs they play on the air.
Quote:
Actually, I guess the animal (or bird) owners along with their talented pets would, both, go to the clink in these situations if royalties were not handled properly, right? Hopefully, they could share the same cell!!
No, copyright law is not criminal law. Likely the most that would happen would be a Cease and Desist letter. If the person were to continue after that, then I would guess that Civil Court, not Criminal Court, might be the next step.
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Are birds exempt from copyright laws? Hmmm, a good question. I'll bet a lawyer will gladly charge you many thousands of dollars to find out ;-) BTW, I've never seen an episode of American Idol, MASH, Taxi, Simpsons, Cheers, Sex In The City, Seinfeld, Desperate Housewives, any "reality show", and every other show that is talked about. The last time I saw a football game on TV, Bob Greise was the quarterback of the Dolphins and they just finished their undefeated season. Instead of watching TV I've:
- spent a lot of fun time with Leilani, my wife/lover/best-friend/bandmate - we've talked, laughed, and shared experiences together
- learned and sequenced over 500 songs for my duo
- wrote 18 style disks and 28 fake disks for BiaB
- learned how to run a mail-order business that evolved into an internet business
- learned to play wind synthesizer, and emulate other instruments well enough to fool players of those instruments
- learned to play lead guitar, it's surprising how quickly an hour or two per day can make you proficient - I amaze my guitar playing friends about how fast I learned - but it is my seventh instrument so I took a lot of music knowledge to it
- learned to mod a guitar, replaced pickups, re-wired for 1 tone 1 vol, and installed a Varitone -- turning a cheap guitar with a great neck into a real player
- improved my saxophone playing
- improved my knowledge of music theory
- attended numerous symphonies, art museums, local events, and ballets
- jammed with fellow musicians
- learned to write HTML and authored two web sites -- http://www.nortonmusic.com and http://www.s-cats.com
- read dozens of interesting books, mostly of the non-fiction and scientific genre
- wasted thousands of hours on the Internet
- and more.
So the farther I get from being a TV addict, the more I wonder why people want to be in that drug-induced stupor and waste their lives. Personally I'd rather live my life by doing things than live my live vicariously by watching actors pretending to do things.I don't have an antenna (although the house is wired for it and the mast is in place - something I can easily do), I don't have cable service, and in my area, all I can get is a very, very snowy, often unwatchable "praise the Lord" station (and I don't think Jesus would approve of it). However, full disclosure is necessary. Leilani and I do sit down once or twice a week and watch a Netflix movie. Usually not the blockbusters, no chick flicks, no dick flicks, and hopefully something either artsy-fartsy or thought provoking that leads to a lot of discussion between the two of us. We started our relationship by endlessly talking to each other, and decades later we are still talking and laughing together every day. And that's a lot better than sitting in front of the tube together. Back to copyrights. There is a lot of copyright violation going on. There is nothing the copyright holders can do but put a small dent into it. After all, how many people have shared a taped movie or CD with their friends or family members? Such an action can cost you up to a quarter of a million dollars and five years in jail in the unlikely event you would get caught and prosecuted. If you are a business, that can be doubled. Plus there are a lot of copyright misunderstandings. The biggest one is that if no money changes hands, it's legal. Nothing could be farther from the truth. There is no mention of money in the copyright laws. There are "Fair Use" exemptions, but they are vague and require the services of a lawyer who specializes in intellectual property to decipher -- and even then, you can get into trouble because of the fact that the laws are vague. If I were dictator I'd change a lot about the copyright laws. Playing the songs in a bar or coffee house. Who does it hurt? Not sure. Who gains? The owner of the venue is making revenue. The band might be getting paid. But is the artist going to miss the money? I doubt it for two reasons (1) if the song is popular enough for the audience to want to hear it in a coffee house, the artist has already made a lot of money (2) it's free advertising for the song (3) there is no way of reporting which songs you played in the coffee house so the particular song writers of the songs you sing there are not going to directly benefit by your singing of those songs. I suppose the money goes mostly to administration and partly to the retirement fund or something like that. But it is definitely illegal without the venue obtaining a license. I don't think that's right. I don't think singing "Happy Birthday" without paying royalties is right either. Something like that should be owned by the public. I think 75 years after the death of the author is excessive, but I'm not sure what I'd make it. I don't think corporations should be allowed to hold copyrights, but only the people who actually did the work. I'd make numerous other changes, and to tell the truth, I don't know if my decisions would be helpful or hurtful -- so I'd have to adjust them as I went along. Plus not everyone would agree with me. So all I can do is find out what the copyright laws are, and abide by them. I'm neither big nor powerful enough to change them. I've written to my representatives, but not enough people have cared to join me in that pursuit to make a difference (they'd probably rather vegetate in front of the TV). I don't think the public knows the power that they have. And it's too easy to get distracted by other things that matter less. After all, did you know that the US government spends many millions of your tax dollars per year to keep the sugar prices high? So high that the soft drink manufacturers find it cheaper to put high-fructose corn syrup in their drinks? And corn syrup doesn't taste as good as sugar and is worse for your health. But I'll bet you know who won the super bowl, who Bart Simpson is, the characters on Seinfeld, who's playing in March Madness, and/or soap opera plots. Which matters more to the quality of your life? Isn't it worth writing a letter to your representative, and then not voting for him/her if he/she ignores your wishes and represents big business instead of the citizens? And do you believe the propaganda spewed out on TV? Remember, the TV companies are owned by big businesses like GE, Disney, Fox, etc., and broadcast what is good for themselves, not what is good for you, and aren't above telling falsehoods and disguising it as news and fact to increase their profits. 'nuff said. (Sorry, I'm on a rant today). Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Hey Notes, run for office. I'll vote for you. My wife and I are similar to you and yours in that neither of us care for the so called reality tv (we both worked in emergency services for our careers and have seen the real reality), haven't cared for a sitcom since Mad About You went off, and don't know any of the new actors that are out there. But we do watch the tube. We like movies of all kinds, find some to be very inspirational and informative as well as thought provoking and love the History and History International channels. Things we see there that aren't mainstream knowledge we generally follow up on with internet research. And then there is BIAB and/or live playing. Too much fun. Unfortunately I recently found out (the hard way from you and other posters here:) that the open mic venue is in violation of copyright laws. I'm with you on that issue - if the people listening want to hear me do a cover, it must be something they have heard before and the copyright holder has made his nickel. Shouldn't he/she/they be pleased with that? I don't get any money for it, the coffee house made money selling coffee, not the song, and everyone is having a good time. There are some exceptions to the copyright restrictions (according to my internet research after getting spanked on this forum) but I don't fit into them. So here we are, all of these great songs that we can play for ourselves or friends in private. Takes some of the fun out of it. I don't want to make it sound like I don't understand the copyright laws, they just seem a little too broad and vague, maybe because lawyers have been involved. I don't know. Must be a day for rants. I'm done with mine. Next.
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Quote:
...the copyright laws, they just seem a little too broad and vague, maybe because lawyers have been involved.
It was as much Mark Twain and Sonny Bono as anybody. I doubt many historians ever expected those two to end up in the same sentence.
Mark Twain agitated heavily and successfully in the early 20th century to get copyrights extended a fair amount. They were very short and weak previously. It was not solely his doing , but he was an influential spokesman for longer, broader rights.
Later, as a congressman (and, umm, copyright holder) Sonny got law passed extending it much further and establishing this astonishingly long copyright period we have today in the US.
Read about that "Mickey Mouse Protection Act" here in the Wikipiki
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
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Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
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We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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