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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
I've been using the style wizard to start off a new style with some midi files I have. I'm a little confused about how it selects/ chooses the weights. In the rhythm tracks it seems I'll often get something with a weight of '8' without masking, and all the other sections '1's or '3's.
I realized I can change these weights and add masking if I want ... but why aren't they more 'evenly distributed' in the first place?
I've been searching the website and reading the manual, but so far haven't found much.
Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,486
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,486 |
Hi Prado
I have found that most highly weighted ones can fit almost anywhere whereas the closer you get to the lowest scored ones they are really only suitable for more sparing use - hence the higher scored ones get played more
I have spent some time messing around with the scoring and except for a few personal exceptions PG Music seem to have achieved a musically believable balance
jazzman
BIAB - RealBand - 2022
Windows 10 64
Zoo computer with 7i processor- SSD 1TB -2TB HDD
Roland keyboards
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
Thanks Jazzman ... I'll be less inclined to try to tweak them if that's the case.
If I understand you, you're saying that when the wizard does it's analysis it somehow also includes a relative/ comparative assessment of how musically useful a phrase would be viz. the others available ... as far as fitting into different parts of a song. So, if there is only one 'really useful musical phrase,' then that one will receive a very high weight with others given weighting for infrequent use.
I'll keep watching how it does it. According to what you say, just by chance I should sometimes come up with a midi song that has at least 2 'really useful' musical phrases. In which case I should find 2 phrases with relatively high weightings in the stylemaker window. Or, perhaps one that will have more of the phrases weighted closer to 5. So far, the 3 times I've worked on different midi files, it has always been the case of one '8' and a lot of '2s' and '1s.'
Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 603
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 603 |
Quote:
...when the wizard does it's analysis it somehow also includes a relative/ comparative assessment of how musically useful a phrase would be viz. the others available
Brian always knows what he's talking about, and I'm interested to hear what he says about the weightings that wizard assigns.
At the bottom, it still comes solely from numerical analysis, though. If some drum pattern plays all the time in your sample piece, a wizard can count up those occurrences and assign a large weight. That pattern then should play very often, much like the original.
How else could that be done? It's a figure of speech to say a program "decides" what's "useful" or what might sound good. In fact, it can only count stuff that's fed to it and calculate a lot of averages very quickly.
Larry
______
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944 |
Yes, the weights are assigned based on their use in the file that was input to the program. (actually the range of bars in the input file that you have specified).
For example, if the file was 30 bars long, the program analyzes it, and might find 5 unique patterns (since many would be repeated). It then assigns weights to them, that correspond to how often they were used in the input file.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
Thanks Peter ...
That takes my thoughts in a different and potentially more helpful direction. So it is not some meta-analysis of theoretical 'musical usefulness' of the phrase, but rather the number of times the phrase is utilized in the analyzed bars relative to other unique phrases that determines initial weighting. So then if a song, a dance song for example, has a fairly repetitive 'hook' on a rhythm track, the 'hook' phrase will end up with a very high weighting ... even though musically some of the other phrases could just as easily have been used instead for 'hooks' in the original composition.
In this case I see I need to learn how to better discriminate the bars selected for analysis or go back later and even out the cell weighting so that I can have the style generate greater compositional variety.
This suggests the analysis is done in the wizard 'bar by bar.' Is this true? There must be some way to isolate the phrase, and since midi data does identify each note by it's sequential position in a bar (sequence ... hmmm, wonder why that word sounds familiar?), I'm guessing that BIAB uses a 'bar' as the parameter box to analyze phrases.
Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944 |
>>I'm guessing that BIAB uses a 'bar' as the parameter box to analyze phrases.
Yes.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
See Yes can be an elaborate answer.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
I'd describe it as 'eloquent' ... but I think we substantially agree.  And I am ecstatic to be on my way to using the stylemaker wizard intelligently! Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 484
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 484 |
Wow, this is so far over my head, my noise stared to bleed! Back to the drawing board for me learn yet another feature in this toy box.
Thanks,
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
A noise bleed?
That is typically an audio hardware problem -- crosstalk...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
^^Just pick up your computer and tilt it backwards for a minute or so putting a little pressure right in the front, middle upper quarter.
Always works for me.
Prado
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
^^^^^^^^ Larry ... somehow I missed your post.
I quite agree that programs can't decide, but only follow mathematical rules written by their creators.
But although my surmising turned out to be incorrect, it is not implausible. After all that 'counting' is done, the particular content of a bar in midi data, i.e., number of notes, length on notes, time on and off of notes, velocity, ad nausea, could still be subjected to some type of probabalistic 'comparison' algorithm informed by music/ melody theory. After which bars with more useful phrases as as dictated by the creator, e.g., two dotted quarters as opposed to one whole note, could have preferential weights assigned.
'Just sayin' ...
Prado
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