PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows ASIO Crashes BB constantly

............. no crashes ............... YAY.

Band-in-a-Box 2011 ........... Amazing.

......... but remember to press the little x in the top right corner though.

Made my day that.

:-)

Hi Frank,
I just read your post about half an hour ago and I remembered that I did have that white screen quite often back when I was first trying to set up BIAB. (about a year ago now). So I fired up BIAB and started flipping back and forth between ASIO and MME, closing out by hitting ok, and testing. Result: no problems regardless of how I closed the windows.

I did run across another problem tho, and I think I know what's causing it. I think the VSC:VSTi is crashing BIAB sometimes when it unloads, So I have another test for anyone with the VSC:VSTi and enough time to test, and that is--just load and test then load something different and test. Do this a few time because it doesn't happen all the time.

Later
Jim

ps Mal, I don't mean to hi-jack your thread. I voted for you if that's any consolation. :>)

Wow, I have the floppies, I use band in a box for 2 to 4 hours a day, have 10 grand worth of gear, and am a moron.

I might just re-think spending hours every day helping people and spend my time learning another instrument.

I still don't need, and don't see the need, for asio anything. Everything is a OK. Maybe I should chuck my inferior gear and results in the river and take up sleeping in a nursing home.

Sorry about being a total freaking moron, someone at PG music turn me back into a freakin newbie, idiot, so I can start whining about how the software is stupid, outdated and needs Peter to sell his LearJet and spend some cash on making some new guy happy. Right.

Fogetabboutit.

I have been insulted by way more intelligent people.

I may be stupid but every morning I wake up with another $150 bucks in my bank account from the pension and even more from the investments. I guess I'm not worthy of the geniuses here and I'm not a total ASSIO. Too bad.

I'm gonna be away for a bit, going take care of my 9 month old grandson and sing Papa John he plays one he plays one on wee Fionns thumb......with a nick nack Paddy Whack..

never mind.

Oh by the way, my question as to WHY ones needs ASIO was never answered. Not in an intelligent answer that makes any sense.

Lot of inferring going on here.

Trying to support an argument that there is no advantage of ASIO over MME ... regardless of what personally works for you ... is a loser. You may dislike ASIO for any reason you care to, but that does not arrive at a cogent argument.

This would:
1: I prefer MME because even though it has large latency, you never have to worry about any issues of sharing a driver if you are using more than one program.

2: I prefer ASIO because even though you may have to adjust settings since only one program can use the driver at a time, you never have to worry about latency.

Congrats on your good income and, more importantly, grandson. Enjoy every precious moment with him and the others you love.

Peace.

Prado

Prado
re being aware of asio. yes i'm fully aware.
but i'm also aware that no matter what a user does in tweaking..
there will still be a certain latency. even tho it might be low.

seeing the forest for the trees the whole computer music area was done bass ackwards imho.
the basic problem is win was originally developed as a general purpose
OS. instead of building a small elegant fast OS offering very low latency in audio apps .
thus asio was a tack on to get around the win kernel.

run dpc latency checker on your 2 systems..the xeon n the centrino
n lets see how good those puppies are in terms of "us reported figures".
report back with a pic. lets see if you get red spikes.

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
because asio is just one aspect.
the other major aspect is how well a particular users pc handles real time data
streams , which is where the dpc analyser comes in.

let me point out , and i'm sure some will disagree with me..
going back to pressing keys and expecting immediate response from a plug in..
another aspect is some plug ins are resource hogs.
it shouldnt be a problem with a user that has an i7, but it might be on a puny system.
depends how the plug in is coded.

as john correctly hints at..there are many ways of doing a song.
mebe your argument prado is that you want to play along live with biab
useing a real time plug in.
but i look at biab slightly differently as a song beds scratch pad
in concept. nothing to stop you doing a rough arrange in biab ,
then dropping the traks into your fav daw where the asio works well
for you. why not do it like that ??

anyhoo what sound device are you trying to use in biab with asio support ??
cos i havent seen you state that cept in passing rme was mentioned.
are you trying to use rme ??

post back your dpc results and what sound device your useing mate.
cos i'm curious.

Manning1 ...

Of course you are aware of latency and that there will always be some. We are talking about a relative and practical diffrence, not an absolute lack of latency.

Your basic point expressed earlier was that ASIO drivers could cause other problems for folks with inadequate systems or lack of experience in digital audio. While that is true, the proper question with respect to and discussion of relative advantages of ASIO vs. MME should be based upon the premise that they are both working properly as intended. And that is why low latency is a legitimate issue in this discussion.

Yes, it is my preference to run low latency. I simply like to have everything set up to run consistently and with low enough latency that it is below the threshold of auditory detection ... let's say less than 11 msec. What is the lowest achievable by MME? What ever it is, it's detectable.

I'll have to check the dpc latency later ... I'm not at my studio.

I'm running XP svc pack 3 on both machines. I have a PCIe RME Multiface II with the latest drivers. You're probably familiar with RME ... since I see you slumming around over that at Gearslutz from time to time ... as RME along Lynx and Digidesign are among the highest regarded product lines in the PC arena. If not, you can go to ...

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_multiface_2.php

I have an Echo Layla 24 with the latest drivers. This runs from a cardbus to my laptop.

I also tried ASIO4All when I had trouble with BIAB.

Look, I don't really understand why when some folks legitimately complain about ASIO implimentation in BIAB, a feature that the company claims to support, other folk seem to be offended. Low latency is something that most knowleagable folks demand in audio applications. If you don't want it fine. But to deprecate those that do want it seems pointless.

I also think there is a tendency on this forum to assume that anyone who is a new member is consequently ignorant about audio applications and digital audio. There are 'noobs' to it all and 'noobs' to BIAB. There is a difference.

Regards.

Prado

I'm also on Vista 64bit with 8GB memory FrankK. I also have the complete BB on an external drive and 2 terabyte drives.

With realtracks and vsti I am pleased with the sounds I am getting in most genres, though would like to see more classical and contemporary folk instruments being introduced in realtracks, at a wider tempo range.

None the less ..... it's all good for the most part.

:-)

I should have mentioned this in my original post. I'm running XP SP3, 1.8 duo with 3 meg ram.

Prado.
ok..so rme.
a very fine sound device as i'm sure your aware. and no i'm not assuming your
a noob to digital audio.
by the by as i'm sure your aware asio introduces its own overhead.
(by the way ive used asio at length as well as other non asio formats like wdm etc)
so your saying your rme dont play nice with biab ..correct ??
nor your layla (another good device) correct ??
mebe it is a biab issue..but follow my weird mind..
cos i like to try n trak things down.

both those devices have user control panels..correct ??
what ive seen sometimes with these user control panels ..
and an important point to note is..sometimes the way a user
control panel is set up in one daw music software might need a different setting
in another daw software.

lets be constructive bout this.
post pics of each user control panel that you know works well in other daw software.
just amuse me please..theres method in my madness..lol.

i would like to make one important point also mate.
the way pc architecture works is the music software daw or application..
is seperated from the sound device.
win sits in the middle of everything running tasks n processes
rather like a traffic cop.
all the music app does at start up is ask win whats installed on the users
machine and win reports back.
(for more info peruse the MS developers site called MSDN and look up enumeration
of devices.)
in summary the music app itself could be accessing the freddy splunge
sound device. all the music app knows is what win tells it is installed
re sound devices. then the user chooses in the music app the
I/O//drivers to be used.
the reason i'm stateing the above is some users assume that there is a close
direct relationship tween the music app and the sound device.
but in fact its more of an arms length relationship if you peruse
the MSDN site and delve into the midi and audio api's that developers of
midi and audio software use when developing in win.

so what fazes users is why does my xyz sound device work well with
one piece of daw software but not another. ??
or why does xyz sound device work on my mates puter but not mine ??
youll see these questions on many forums.
even why does asio work on one of my pc's but not the other ??
seen that one too.

my answer is there are many variables that need to be considered.
mebe it is biab's asio implementation..but it might not be.
obviously some folks here are useing asio ok.
there are other variables. mebe for example its a setting in a sound devices user control panel.
ive seen many times where a user is swearing blind its the daw software..
(sonar//samp//saw//audition//any other daw software you can name)
only to find out it was a setting in the user control panel.
(or sometimes incorrect driver assignment)
assuming the correct I/O drivers have been assigned in the daw software.
which is why i'm asking you to show pics of your user control panel
settings for your sound devices. it might be a blind end..but might not.

Manning1 ... hey, appreciate you going the extra mile. You're obviously putting a lot of thought and 'help your neighbor' concern in to this. I cannot but agree with what you say as far ... there are many variables. And of course the driver, ASIO in this discussion, is exactly the bridge between the software, windows and the hardware sound device.

(Edit ... tell you what, here below is a link to a screen shot of the RME console. If this is what you meant, just tell me what settings you think I need to have and I'll set my card that way and see what happens.)

http://www.rme-audio.de/old/en/hdsp/multifa.htm#SETTINGS

OK, I know how to make a 'screen shot,' but I'm not clear on how to turn this into a postable picture. Got a link or a quick instruction?

Second, are you talking about pics of the drivers' applet windows where you change settings or a pic of the driver as setup in the 'options setup window of a program it is working with? Or?

I also note that in your list of questions you missed mine: Noting that I have installed all the same applications on both my desktop and laptop, specifically Cubase5, Ableton6, AcidPro6, Reaper3, Reason4, SoundForge6 and several standalone applications including NI FM8, and that the desktop runs on RME drivers and the laptop runs on Echo Audio drivers, and every single other software program I own runs flawlessly on both computer with the two different drivers, why won't either ASIO driver run BIAB on either computer?

Yes, a long question, but it does seem to answer most of the 'pinning it down' possibilities you pose. No?

Now, I haven't tried the 'fix' mentioned in this very thread, but later tonight I'll give it a shot.

So, on to the pics.

Prado

If someone wants to use the ASIO drivers, for *whatever* reason, and if the program is supposed to support ASIO, then they should be able to invoke the ASIO drivers without crashes, freezes or other problems.

Things like that can be quite frustrating.


--Mac

I too have struggled to make ASIO work well in BIAB. I just purchased the new M-Audio Fast Track II for use with my Laptop, the goal being to Play the Akai EWI USB onstage using bass sample libraries. I was never able to get my Tascam Fireone interface to work with ASIO in BIAB. My laptop has 2 GB of ram and Windows 7 32 bit. Imagine my surprise when I was able to get it working with 2010 version of BIAB. Latency is very low, audio sounds good.

But I still can't get the EWI USB to be seen as an input in BIAB. So, as long as I'm playing a keyboard, I'll be fine with ASIO. But if I'm playing the EWI, I have to use Reason. What a drag, as I'd love to use BIAB onstage. Now I'm experimenting using Reason with ASIO, and BIAB with MME at the same time...........

Ahhhh....the fun of it all. Better than the days of floopy disks and changing IRQ's the hard way.

Ed

+1 for the "don't hit OK" button fix. My RME ASIO drivers are now locked and loaded.

I am ... partially anyway ... mollified. It must be the font in the OK button that is causing all this grief!

Kudos to 'Serendipitous FrankK'

Prado