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Evening all,
Years ago to get the TTS-1 Synth I purchased Music Creator 7 on a 1/2 price sale, more recently, when BIAB became 64-bit I downloaded Cakewalk by Bandlab to get the TTS-1 64-bit version.
I don't think I've opened either programme since installing!
So, my question;
Can I extract the relevant TTS-1 files from their current location, place them where BIAB and RealBand will easily find them, then uninstall Music Creator and Cakewalk?
If this is possible, could someone give me the Idiot's Guide to the process?
Vintage
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Short answer NO, (EDITED there is a maybe way - see PS) TTS-1 is a DXi not VSTi and it is "entangled" within the Windows registry unlike vast majority of VST's/VSTi's. If you uninstall either "Cakewalk" program (Music Creator or the Bandlab version) they will uninstall the TTS-1 DXi (and other shared "stuff"). If you installed Music Creator before Bandlab's Cakewalk - you WILL need to reinstall Cakewalk, because it will uninstall somethings (e.g., TTS-1, shared dll's) required by Cakewalk. But Cakewalk by Bandlab is essentially a current up to date FREE version of Sonar Platinum a pro level DAW (albeit Cakewalk Platinum without all the extra free stuff, 3rd party programs, VSTi's, etc. like XLN Additive Drums, Dimension/Rapture Pro, etc.). IMHO, now that it is (mostly) divorced from the "old" Cakewalk team, Sonar is worth keeping around especially since it's a FREE full featured DAW. Good luck Larry EDIT add on: PS - there are tools that will allow you to "install and register" a DX/DXi but you'd have to go find (i.e., know where they are) the TTS-1 files (usually in the "X:\...\Cakewalk\Shared DXi\TTS-1\" folder and try running "C:\Windows\System32\regsrv32.exe" see https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/249873/how-to-use-the-regsvr32-tool-and-troubleshoot-regsvr32-error-messagesEDIT OFF Good luck again soap box on That was always a problem with TwelveTone/Cakewalk company software installs that hacked me off to the point that 11 months before Gibson dropped Cakewalk/Sonar - I dropped Cakewalk/Sonar (after 25+ years) because their messy installs and lack of flexibility during installs (long story) got to be too much for me. Cakewalk installs were (and still are) messy, installs to redundant crap, and worse - installs do NOT keep track of a count of identical software/programs already installed so that shared programs, dlls, library's, etc. can be de-installed by simply decrementing install counts within registry without actually UNINSTALLING or performing other destructive procedures affecting software that is not being uninstalled. Unfortunately this install/uninstall behavior was never cleaned up/fixed/modified by the "new" Bandlab team (probably because a lot of the same folks are involved and human laziness "why re-design/re-write tools that [sort of] work") soap box off
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 12/02/20 11:53 AM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Appreciate the detailed response.
Thank you.
Vintage
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I finally played with regsvr32.exe, so I can change my answer to YES, it appears you can have JUST TTS-1 without Sonar/Cakewalk/Music Creator but:
1) You need to copy the TTS-1 folder to someplace before you uninstall Sonar, Cakewalk, Music Creator, etc otherwise, it will disappear (be uninstalled) as I said before.
2) Need to know if the tts-1.dll is 32 or 64 bit's. Assuming you have copied the latest TTS-1 install (the one installed by Cakewalk by Bandlab) it will be the 64 bit only version. You can verify this using a few tools or simply look at the TTS-1.dll file size if it is the 64-bit version it will be 5,973 KB's (the 32-bit version of the .dll is 5,887 KB's)
3) To install the 64-bit version you will need to run the regsrv32.exe found in the C:\Windows\SysWoW64 folder (yea I know it LOOKS backa$$wards). Open a Command Line [if you don't know how to do this then quit right now] I ran mine as administrator (not sure you have too but I know that works).
Go to the C:\windows\sysWOW64 folder and run this:
Regsvr32 "drive letter:\folder where TTS-1 folder is\TTS-1.dll"
You will need to include the quotes around the full TTS-1 path including the file name TTS-1.dll
it should say success
FYI to install the 32-bit version it is almost the same: you run regsvr32 found in the C:\Windows\system32 instead of the one in the SysWoW64 folder (like I said it looks backa$$wards). You can have BOTH versions (64 and 32 bit versions) running but you have to change one of the TTS-1.dll file names. I copied the 32-bit version and called it "tts-1 (32).dll" (real original, I know) - they each show up as labeled as "Cakewalk TTS-1" within the respective versions of BIAB, Realband and other apps that can use DX/DXi's
good luck
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 12/02/20 01:00 PM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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You've been busy!
I have 32-bit and 64-bit versions, but I have never run a command line, so I'll need to check this out.
To avoid uninstalling until it's safe to do so, could I rename the TTS-1 source folders after I have copied?
I appreciate your help but it's 1.30 a.m. here, so I'll check it out tomorrow.
Thanks again,
Vintage
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Yes you can rename the folder. Be aware, unless you haven't "verified" this yet I think you will find the 32-bit version of TTS-1 is NOT working! If you recently installed Cakewalk by Bandlab then for sure you have the 64-bit TTS-1 installed (and I'm sure it works in BIAB- correct?) But unless, before installing Cakewalk by Bandlab, you did some copying and moving of the OLDER Music Creator created TTS-1 folder from the "Shared DXi\" folder then the Bandlab install wiped out (over wrote) the 32-bit Music Creator "TTS-1.dll" file with the Cakewalk 64-bit version. Since CW install uses all the shared folders and already installed paths - newer installs OVERWRITE older stuff. If that's the case and you STILL want BOTH versions - then copy the current 64-bit TTS-1 folder (call it TTS-1 64, yea I know real original) to somewhere. Then re-install Music Creator, that will refresh the "TTS-1.DLL" file with the 32-bit version of it (of course Cakewalk application won't like that since you just overwrote some 64-bit apps and files with 32-bit versions). Now copy that TTS-1 folder someplace and call it (TTS-1 32 - again real original naming) Now organize the folders however you like, but know what is where and run the appropriate regsrv32.exe (32- or 64- bit or both from either the C:\windows\SysWoW64 folder or the C:\windows\System32 folder respectively) Pay attention to that: Remember the 32-bit installer, regsrv32.exe, is actually in the folder that APPEARS to contain 64-stuff due to its name (i.e., "sysWoW64") and the 64-bit installer is in the folder that appears to have 32-bit "stuff" (i.e., "System32") If not sure how to do any of the above and have not mapped out a logical "how to" before you start then PLEASE LEAVE IT ALONE! I'd hate to see you install Music Creator and then Cakewalk, and perform endless rinse repeats ... one install after another chasing both versions of TTS-1 and having files all over the place - and maybe screwing up already working software. Change topic a little: I would also like to point out a probably better GM VSTi (not DXi), Halion Sonic SE see this other thread (this might still work) https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=577632&Searchpage=1&Main=81335&Words=halion+se&Search=true#Post577632Good luck Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 12/02/20 09:37 PM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, when I installed the Bandlab version it overwrote the original, but later I remembered I still had the Music Creator installation files on a back-up and now can use both 32 and 64-bit versions.
Anyway, after reviewing your very informative replies, I suspect this is all above my pay grade so would be safer to leave as is.
Thanks for all your help,
Vintage
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I recently a few days ago installed the TTS-1.dll from cakewalk. It was straight forward. I just did (if I remember it right):
1. installed cakewalk (from bandlab-assistant-windows-latest.exe)
2. looked into the C: folder program/cakewalk/sharedDXi and there was the folder TTS-1 with the TTS-1.dll in it.
3. started Band in a Box MIDI/Audio driver setup and selected Cakewalk TTS-1 in the Synthesizer/sound card menue and then ticked Mark use VST/DXi synth and finally selected the VST/DXi synt by clicking the VST/DX1 synt option and Cakewalk TTS-1 was already there as an option to select.
4. tested it by playing some midi files (it had much better sound than my previous synth). Worked out fine. Done.
I then copied away the C:/program/cakewalk/sharedDXi as a backup. Uninstalled Cakewalk. And the copied back C:/program/cakewalk/sharedDXi. Tested Band in a Box again with TTS-1 and it still worked out fine.
I did not have to change anything in the registry or to use the comman line. It was very simple. I later also dropped an extra copy in the BB run folder but that was not necessary.
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I installed Cakewalk by Bandlab first (which gave me the 64-bit version of TTS-1). I subsequently installed the old Sonar Home Studio (which was offered for free) 32-bit version, which gave me the 32-bit version of TTS-1 (I only got Home Studio 32-bit for that purpose; that way, I didn't have to do a full Sonar 32-bit install to get TTS-1 32-bit - which I could have also done).
Both work great with no registry hacking required. TTS-1 32-bit in BIAB 32-bit (and other apps supporting DXi) and TTS-1 64-bit in BIAB-64-bit (and other apps supporting DXi).
I haven't tried it the other way (32-bit first, then 64-bit), so don't know the end result, but I did the above on three different machines and it works flawlessly.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Funny, I could never get the two to work at the same time?? But when 64-bit Sonar finally came out I was installing IT over much older 32-bit ONLY CW software and all the shared directories and paths were "set in stone" by the installers - unless I uninstall ALL previous cakewalk stuff (e.g., V9 Pro Audio Deluxe, Sonar XL 1,...) and started fresh.
When 64-bit TTS-1 came along with 64-bit Sonar it simply overwrote the 32-bit version. If I then tried to reinstall any 32-bit CW stuff (e.g., Music Creator for grins) to try and get it back to the 32-bit version - same story: since paths set in stone by previous CW installers (without some other hacks) the 32-bit TTS-1.dll simply overwrote the 64-bit TTS-1.dll (you can tell by file size - which is which)
BTW the "TTS-1.dll" is the ONLY thing that is either 32-bit or 64-bit - the only other stuff in that \Shared DXi\TTS-1\ directory is the actual sound data file ("tts-1-param.dat") and a Help directory - neither of which cares about word length used by the calling application.
So John you must have TWO different directories (somehow, somewhere?) where TTS-1 is installed - because they can't co-exist in SAME X:\...\Shared DXi\TTS-1\ directory. OR do you have two differently directly named TTS-1???.dll's in that one \Shared DXi\TTS-1\ directory??
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 12/03/20 11:52 AM. Reason: as usual my typos
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Yes, that would work and obviously did. Glad it did and it is clearly a very simple way for anyone to do or try: as long as the Bandlab (or other CW) uninstaller does NOT uninstall or de-register the TTS-1 DXi. In your case looks like all is well. If anyone does end up with a deregistered version of TTS-1 after uninstalling (they probably won't, given your experience) no need to re-install CW by Bandlab to re-register the TTS-1 DXi they can simply re-register TTS-1 using regsvr32.exe. In my experience with older Cakewalk uninstallers, I'm pretty sure (in my case at least) they always uninstalled that DXi and/or deregistered it along with most other installed CW SW - but I'm old so memory is the first, or second(?) thing go.
Uninstalling previous versions of any Cakewalk SW really trashes all previous CW installs. Over 25+ years of using CW software I've uninstalled a version or two of CW at least a few times trying to clean up a little here and there, but I always have to go back and reinstall starting from V9 Pro Audio Deluxe (that was like Windows 95 or 98 and only 32-bit) forward to get retrieve all desired add-ins/add-on's, not necessarily to retrieve those older CW DAW's.
That reminds me (Yea I'm gabby) Bandlab warns if you had/have older Sonar installs and you then installed CW by Bandlab - if you UNINSTALL Bandlabs CW it WILL uninstall most of the previous installed Sonar SW. So folks that have Bandlab and OLDER Sonar need to be careful if they plan to uninstall Bandlab's version at some point.
While your method should always work (again with the above caveats) that does not solve OP's quest: the OP wants both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of TTS-1 running at the same time without the installed overhead and space used up by both Bandlab's CW and Music Creator.
If you, or the OP, are like John above and can simply "rinse and repeat" using an older 32-bit version of CW SW (older 32-bit CW, Sonar, or Music Creator) after already having installed Bandlab's 64-bit CW the SAME trick might work but again with caveats assuming: 1) the 32-bit uninstallers don't uninstall the 32-bit DXi [baby with the bathwater scenario] and 2) the 32-bit CW, Sonar, or Music Creator doesn't overwrite the already existing 64-bit TTS-1 dll file with the 32 bit one (i.e., the 32-bit installer installs TTS-1 to a completely different path/location).
As you've shown there is usually more than one way to skin a cockroach (I don't love cats but I DO hate cockroaches)
My "issues" with TTS-1 (I don't even routinely use TTS-1, I use external HW and/or other VSTi's - LOL) 32/64 bit conflicts probably stem from having installed so many CW SW versions over so many older CW SW versions starting with CW V2 for DOS all the way up to Sonar Platinum, without skipping a release!
Once every few years I'll jump in here on TTS-1 topic but and usually overthink or over-engineer a "solution."
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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shlind
Followed your method earlier today on a different PC but BIAB lost the link.
I think I'll just live with it.
Thanks to all for the help.
Vintage
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It worked out fine straight away for me! No problems at all se post above.
I just tested it a bit further to see if the TTS-1 could be moved around freely anywhere and still working.
It seems that it has to be located under the same "cakewalk folder structure" in the "program folder" as when installed cakewalk in the first place. If I move it elseware or rename the cakewalk folder Band in a Box does not find the TTS-1 plugin. This was exactly what I did in the first place I copied it back under the same empty cakewalk folder structure in the program folder as when cakewalk was installed and it worked out fine. Only difference was that cakewalk now is uninstalled.
So, maybe one needs to change the Register as mentioned in the posts above in order to be able to place the TTS-1 plugin anywere in any folder or disk. I dont know. It all worked out fine for me in the first try se the posts above. This test was only to if the TTS-1 folder could be moved around freely and still working.
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NO - no need to edit the registry. Just make sure "TTS-1.dll" and the associated .dat file and Help folder are located in the same place (same complete path) it was when initially installed by Bandlab CW lab or Music Creator - or whatever installed it.
However, if you want to MOVE TTS-1 to some other place and path name then you will need to run regsrv32.exe (as explained many posts back)
good Luck
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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