Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn
Charlie, first let me say I really appreciate you sharing your deep knowledge and work-arounds. Same way I feel about Pipeline and his genius has saved my bacon more than once!
Thank You.


BUT, these complex work-arounds are NOT a solution to poorly designed and implemented software. They are a band-aid and as Rustyspoon correctly observed they are often "complex, counter intuitive, clunky, time consuming, technically outdated".
I completely disagree. Unless you have a very different view of what the words "complex, counter intuitive, clunky, time consuming, technically outdated" are than me, you've bought into the BIAB isn't a multi track recorder and DAW myth. Second, the RealTrack Medley featured was reworked, enhanced and updated in 2019 and 2020 and your statement implies you lack experience using the feature.

Don't get me wrong, they have their place and are GREATLY APPRECIATED!
Yes they do.

BUT they are NOT a substitute for fixing the software.
No problem. The software isn't broken. The BIAB tools you choose to not use for a certain task doesn't mean BIAB isn't capable of doing the task. It simply means you have chosen not to do that task using BIAB.

As an example, I used to code complex apps using Visual Basic. And I was pretty good at it! But occasionally I would hit a wall. A friend and fellow programmer would always remind me that I could "easily" drop into C++ or even assembler to do what I needed to do. And I have no doubt he could have done that. But I couldn't. And even if I could, I preferred to work in at the level where I was proficient rather than deep diving into an unknown area I would never have the need nor time to excel at.
Interesting information but irrelevant other than it validates my point above that you intentionally choose not to do certain tasks BIAB is capable of completing within the program but use methods you're more familiar and comfortable with.

The same thing applies with BIAB. Before 2021 there were 7 tracks available (not including audio). That's it! End of story. 7 tracks.
Not true. Each of those tracks had an additional 10 track sub-mixer.

Yet you claim there are actually 77 tracks? Well, where are they? Can I see them at a glance in the mixer? Can I adjust all parameters of them individually in the mixer like I can the 7 visible tracks? Are they as intuitively obvious in their settings and status that I can, at a glance, see and adjust them?
Yes to each of your questions above.
First and foremost, 70 additional tracks is NOT my claim but is an existing RealTrack feature that precedes my first purchase of a BIAB product. Dr. Gannon has personally posted the fact there's the additional 70 tracks per BIAB Legacy Channel.
So, regardless that I'm the only person you and others are aware that has posted about the fact, there's indisputably been 70 tracks accessible for every BIAB Legacy RealTrack Mixer track for years. They're accessed through the RealTrack Picker. Each Sub-Mixer is visible for the selected track. All of the normal Legacy controls remain intact for the selected BIAB Mixer Channel and each of the additional 10 sub-mixer tracks have their own volume and panning sliders. They each individually have the same visibility and intuitive settings and status so it's easy to see and adjust them.

I think the simple answer to all of these questions is "No"! And this is proven out as you acknowledge most BIAB users do not even know about them. Because they are hidden and/or counter-intuitive.
The only answer is Yes. Sadly the proof that I allege most BIAB users don't know of this feature is not because they're hidden or counter-intuitive but rather users chose to overlook them in 2019, 2020 and 2021 when they were discussed, advertised, demonstrated and explained by PG Music with multiple video demonstrations and tutorials when each of those years were introduced. I have no interest to speculate to how or why such widespread dismissal of these obvious features that are introduced, marketed and claimed as BIAB features and not "workarounds" occurred.

Let me repeat...I am honestly grateful for you sharing your expertise and work-arounds and we are fortunate to have you here doing that. But when someone requests that the mixer be expanded I just wish power users like you would give it a +1 and maybe add there is a work-around available instead of implying that this request has already been fulfilled.
I endorsed others request for additional tracks multiple times across multiple threads. I never had the need to request it myself but just as everyone else, I'm benefiting greatly from this new feature and honestly, it's exceeded my expectations by a huge amount.
My implication this request has been fulfilled was due to extensive remarks rejecting the feature of RealTrack Medleys.

I went through this today to give it a fair shake. And I could see how it might be a useful work-around. But it is most certainly not anywhere nearly as good as having additional mixer tracks!

- you cannot see all of your tracks at a glance without opening the picker and then the medley dialog (which took a long time to load btw)
- you cannot freeze/unfreeze these medley tracks individually
- you cannot control when the medley tracks play except with presets (chorus, 2 bars, 4 bars, etc.)
- you cannot mute/unmute individual tracks in your medley
- the mixer is never updated to reflect what track is actually playing
- you cannot set reverb and tone on the individual tracks in a medley
- you cannot apply a plugin individually to tracks in a medley
- you cannot apply bar settings individually to tracks in a medley
- and probably other "cannots" I didn't even see in my 5-minute evaluation

If, on the other hand, additional full mixer tracks were added, all of the "cannots" above would become "cans".

I continue to feel strongly that to tout 77 tracks is misleading at best. It is an interesting work-around with limited application. No one uses it because it is a bit kludgy and counter-intuitive while also being less functional than true mixer tracks.