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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2 |
I'm trying to use band in a box (version 10) to generate basslines for my piano playing. However, sometimes the bassline generated does not fit the chord. For example, when the chord is G7alt (or G7#5#9 or G7b9 -- it doesn't seem to matter how I enter it), the generated bassline will include the natural 9 (A, in this case), which is obviously wrong. Once it even played a natural 3 over a minor chord. Any suggestions on how to fix this will be appreciated.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716 |
Can you tell us what style or styles you are using when this occurs? I've seen this kind of aberration occur in piano voicings when embellishments are enabled in the style editor but not to the extent of producing a natural 3rd over a minor chord.
I haven't yet seen it in basslines, other than the chromatic 8th note sort that include non-chord tones but which are not stressed and always resolve to a more prominent chord tone. So it would be good to know the style so i can replicate the problem.
Regards
alan
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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You can force the bass.
For example C/G makes the bass note a g, where as just C allows for more latitude.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 88
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
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Posts: 88 |
I have noticed that the x7alt is not observed by BIAB very well, particularly with RealTracks.
I think part of the problem could be the confusion with, and differences of understanding of, the alt form. Hence, it is better to write out the chord exactly the way you want it, with all the tensions and altered tensions you desire: G7#5b9, for example.
(My personal understanding of the alt chord is this: Make sure you DON'T play an unaltered 5th or 9th. Raise 'em, lower 'em, or do both, but don't play natural five or nine.)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2 |
I don't select any style, but it seems to be "zzjazz." The strange thing is that the piano voicings are correct; it's just the basslines that are wrong. I'm not talking about the unstressed chromatic passing tones that you refer to -- those would be fine. It's (for example) the natural 9th on a downbeat. The natural 3rd over a minor seems less common than the problem with the 9th.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9
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Newbie
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Posts: 9 |
Hi all perhaps BiaB is just keeping tha bass out of the way of any melody line you may want to add.It is just like the jazz guitarist staying out of the way of the bass player.
Tom
The more you think about something the harder it will be to achieve.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716 |
I see the problem now. The natural A sounds especially out of place on a G7b9 chord. With a G7#9 the bass line seemed to avoid this however.
I flagged up a similar problem with the way bass lines sometimes work in BIAB which wasn't taken up by anyone. It seems that in many of the jazz styles the bass will ignore a b9 and simply play a major triad or 7th chord figure instead.
The issue for me can't be explained away by saying that the bass is keeping out of the way. If you have a 'bass and drums only' accompaniment you want the bass line to reflect the harmony better than this. You might get away with it in a tune with lots of changes, but in any other setting, say a modal tune, it sounds plain wrong.
Regards
Alan
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
(My personal understanding of the alt chord is this: Make sure you DON'T play an unaltered 5th or 9th. Raise 'em, lower 'em, or do both, but don't play natural five or nine.)
Well, that's my understanding of the ALT chord also.
It gives *options* to the player.
In my experience, *any* combination of the 7 chord can be played in the circumstance, as long as the player always alters the 5 or the 9 -- if either is played.
That would be in any of the possible iterations:
no5, b9
no5, #9
b5, no9
#5, no9
b5, b9
#5, b9
b5, #9
--And, of course, just playing the tritone of the chord as well (dated sounding, perhaps, but never a clash).
Now, with BiaB, the choice is going to be dictated by the masks within the chosen Style file and what's available there.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
I don't select any style, but it seems to be "zzjazz." The strange thing is that the piano voicings are correct; it's just the basslines that are wrong. I'm not talking about the unstressed chromatic passing tones that you refer to -- those would be fine. It's (for example) the natural 9th on a downbeat. The natural 3rd over a minor seems less common than the problem with the 9th.
Hi,
It would be a nice thing if you could upload a BB songfile example of what you are getting at your end and then put the URL to the song here. "Freeze" the song first. Filesizes are small enough to attach to emails in multiples when you do that, regardless of use of RealTracks or not. All that is required is that the user at the other end have the same raw RealTracks available.
Thanks in Advance,
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716 |
Mac
Simply set up a file with one chord G7alt of G7b9 using the ZZJAZZ style and you can hear for yourself what chazz is referring to.
Regards
Alan
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
Mac
Simply set up a file with one chord G7alt of G7b9 using the ZZJAZZ style and you can hear for yourself what chazz is referring to.
Regards
Alan
My first thought is this: "A 'song' that consists of one chord and one chord only, and that chord being an Altered chord, is not likely to be a situation that the program was designed to encounter."
I'll check it out later, for sure, but I think I'm going to find that when the Alt chord is surrounded by *other* chords in a progression that makes harmonic sense, perhaps the note choice will be a little nicer...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716 |
Mac
Yes of course, this was only a suggestion to isolate the problem not a real case scenario. But even over the span of 2 -4 bars, which is a more realistic test, it's nevertheless just as intrusive; all the more so if you're using only the bass to outline the harmony.
Regards
Alan
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