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I run PowerTracks on a Dell desktop with a Soundblaster sound card. Obviously I can record one track at a time using the computer mic input but would like to be able to do more. Currently I record up to four tracks simultaneously onto a standalone Fostex unit which I then import via USB into PowerTracks for mixing etc. I'd like to expand recording capability up to six or preferably eight simultaneous tracks and wonder if I can do this directly into PowerTracks and if so, what hardware I would need. I've been looking on various forums but, being somewhat 'technically challenged', I'm not getting anywhere. Many thanks.
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Delta 1010lt works well with PT, What are the system specs? OS, processor, RAM etc
Do you have the extra slot for another card?
Be aware though that PCI is on its way out, if you can do firewire or USB you may be more future proof.. need more info on system to really comment.
Last edited by rharv; 04/04/10 05:02 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Many thanks for your reply rharv. The PC is a Dell Dimension E520, Core 2 Duo processor E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 MHz, 2MB), Memory dual channel 2048 MB (2 x 1024) 533 MHz DDR2. Windows XP (Home edition), Intel core 2 CPU 6400 @ 2.13GHz, 2GB RAM. Soundcard is a Soundblaster X-Fi Xtreme Music. It does have a slot for an extra card and I have 2 spare USB ports. In view of what you say about PCI, I think I'd rather go the USB route if I can.
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Look at the M-Audio fast track Ultra, if the USB is fast enough on your system. Is USB 2 port available?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Yes, the system device manager says I have "USB 2 enhanced host controller". I have 2 USB ports on the front of the machine that I believe are USB 2. I have a USB MIDI controller that works in either of those but doesn't work in any of the USBs at the back, suggesting they are the "enhanced" ones.
Would I be right in thinking that by plugging an M-Audio Fast Track Ultra into one of these I could record 4 tracks with condenser mics plus another 4 at instrument level simultaneously? If so, that seems to be exactly what I'm looking for.
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Quote:
I have a USB MIDI controller that works in either of those but doesn't work in any of the USBs at the back, suggesting they are the "enhanced" ones.
Rethink.
MIDI connects do not need a large bandwidth data stream. Compared to audio data, MIDI is very miniscule.
Typically most motherboards are mfr'd with ONE USB 2 port and all the rest are USB 1.1 ports. Some few mobos may have more than one USB 2 port on them, they will be rare.
Unfortunately for us, the makers seem to not be able to clearly identify *which* of the USB ports is the USB 2 port. Often we can only find that one by trial and error -- with the Audio USB device.
This gets complicated by the fact that the typical USB 2 Audio device can indeed function in the USB 1.1 port -- but with less bandwidth, which often leads people to think that the connect is fine when they test it out using only one stereo input on a multiple input device, or find that they can stream multiple channels at a lower bandwidth, say 44.1KHz, but will soon find out that they need USB 2.0 in order to stream 96KHz or multiple channels of 44.1, etc.
If your MIDI devices are not working from the rear ports of your PC., there is likely another reason, possibly you are running XP and have crossed the "ten device limit" for USB installs and need to do the registry clean to install new ones, or perhaps the rear ports are suffering from a hardware fault, something of that sort is happening.
For the multiple channel sound device, I think that the PCI card is the way to go if at all possible. After all, the USB stuff actually ends up on the PCI bus anyway...
--Mac
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I gree that going with PCI in this case is probably a good idea. Less to fight with for one thing and your system looks pretty good spec-wise, so you should be able to get a few years out of it yet. If I was in your shoes I'd go PCI myself.
The controller may have been installed while being connected to the front, I have seen some MIDI drivers that work only on the port they were installed to, so that could also be a possibility with the back ports. Maybe the fronts are somehow grouped..just a possibility.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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USB seems little understood.
If your USB device is not *class compliant* -- which means that it needs its own drivers installed in order for the system to recognize and use it rather than an instant "plug and play" situation that uses the generic windows drivers, you should always plug that device into the same USB socket every time. If you don't, your OS is likely to install new instances of that device, one for each of the sockets. This can lead to problems down the line.
There are other issues, too, with USB, for example, when using PGMusic softwares -- and most other softwares that need to address the sound device -- you must have the USB device connected and up and running *before* starting the software or it won't be seen or listed by the host software. You can't start the software and then plug the USB audio or MIDI device in and get the software to "see" it because these softwares run through a routine that looks for the available devices when the software starts up. It cannot list what is not there at that time.
That said, let me say this about USB audio -- there are certainly instances where it is desirable to have the USB audio device. For example, someone with need to use the device on a modern laptop may have little choice if all the laptop has is USB connects on it (No built in FireWire, no pcmcia slot, etc.). Don't fall prey to the "digital thought" process when reading what I have to say, this is not a Boulean situation, not a one or zero, or the thinking that, "Mac says, USB = BAD" that I'm sure someone will take away from this thread. *grin*
All I'm trying to do is lay all the options and the situation out so that someone can make an *informed decision* as to the type of device they consider and purchase.
This is not a one-input problem.
--Mac
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Many thanks to you both for your help - I'm slightly embarassed by my lack of technical ability and hope this is not a stupid question. I've looked at the Delta1010lt and it has an awful lot of wires hanging off it. If I go that route, what will I need to connect mics and instruments to it? Presumably I'll need something with mic preamps and seperate outputs for each channel?
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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There are 2 XLR connectors and 6 rca connectors for input (plus digital input). How many mics you will be using will determine the number of preamps needed. I often use a mixer with subgroup outs for the routing, or if its two vocalists and the rest is line level I'll just set up a couple preamps for the two mics.
In this way the fasttrack may be better if it has the preamps built in.
The XLR connnectors (2) on the 1010lt have preamps for regular mics, but no phantom power. I prefer other preamps usually. These onboard preamps work, but there are better available for little money.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
I've looked at the Delta1010lt and it has an awful lot of wires hanging off it.
That level of connections is part and parcel of being able to record the multiple inputs.
--Mac
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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I am really grateful for all your help but confusion is setting in again! I'm sure I'll learn more in time but as of now terms like "subgroups out" are something of a mystery to me - I did say I was "technically challenged"!As I mainly use condenser mics and therefore need preamps with phantom power it looks as though the Fast Track might be better for me (maybe).
If it's any consolation, it took me several years to get to grips with PowerTracks and even now I only know enough to scratch the surface of what it is probably capable of. I first got it free with Band In A Box and actually gave it away because I had no idea what it was and later ended up having to buy it!
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"That level of connections is part and parcel of being able to record the multiple inputs."
Thanks Mac but I need to know what to do with them!
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Like you said earlier, a preamp with separate outs would work, which is what a mixer does, giving you preamps and line level signals to feed the Delta 1010lt. A mixer with the ability to have separate outputs for each input is what you need. Some mixers have the ability to send a direct out from the channel. Some mixers make you use the effects sends to send a copy out; you'd want one with four of those if you want to record four mics. Some mixers have submix outputs in addition to the effect sends, which is what I happen to use. You could even get 4 separate mic preamps if you wanted.
Or go with the FastTrack..convenient for sure, but USB throughput is the only question there. I am interested in the fasttrack myself for my new machines.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Many thanks again - your help is much appreciated. Nearly midnight here in the UK so I'm off to sleep on it!
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Thanks again for all your advice. I looked at various things and finally purchased an Alesis MultiMix8 USB 2.0. I've got it all hooked up and working but guess what? - I need your help again please. I can't figure out how to assign outputs to individual PT tracks for multitrack recording.
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In the audio preferences area if you click 'Drivers' you should be able to pick what inputs get recorded.
PT will take the one that is highlited and closest to the top and make it the assigned track once the recording is 'kept' using keep take. The rest will autamatically be assigned to the next available track. There isn't much you can do about that at this point except move the track to where you want it afterwards.
It has never really been a problem for me, as it is possible to rearrange the track order in the tracks window.
The thing to pay attention to is whether you are recording a mono track. If you want them in stereo pairs, change the track to Audio-Stereo. If you want monos, use mono, and make sure the 'Mono input' selection box (again in the audio preferences area) is assigned to Left, Right, or Both. This selects whether to use L&R or just the left, etc.
You'll want 'both' in most instances so you can either have input 1&2 be recorded as a stereo recording (using that track format for the target track) or treated as separate mono tracks (by selecting mono as the track type before recording)
Hope that wasn't too confusing. The combination allows recording however you want it, and there is always the 'split track' or 'merge two mono to stereo track' function available if you want to change them.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Many thanks again rharv - yes, that works for me.
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Quote:
Be aware though that PCI is on its way out, if you can do firewire or USB you may be more future proof.. need more info on system to really comment.
 Question: I was under the impression that PCI had better delay performance than USBs, even when using ASIO. The reason, I recall was because of the PC's process scheme of the USB I/o process v.s. the PCI bus input. This is not or no longer true?
I currently use a PCI card but- since EMU discontinued Tech Support for it, I'm looking to replace my Audio Adapter in the future. Thanks in advance for any input.
-Mo
"Everyday-Life changes, Sets get rearranges, & ALL the players change their costumes", Geo Benson's "New Day" (Shakespeare Paraphrase) * "Is all that we see or seem but dreams within dreams?" -Poe
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Mo...if you have a firewire port or a PCI slot available to install a firewire port try the Mackie Onyx 820i Firewire Mixer. It's about $400 from online dealers and can record up to eight tracks simultaneously with two track stereo monitoring. We have the 16 channel version in one of our studios and it works great. We've done several full albums with this stetup with no problems. This mixer does NOT control the DAW or vice-versa, but the converters are topnotch and the mixer can double as an audio mixer for live performances in addition to recording. If you don't need that many simultaneous tracks try the TC Electronic Desktop Konnekt 6 Firewire Audio Interface with 6 firewire channels for around $200. And if you need even less inputs at once try the new TASCAM US-144MKII USB AUDIO/MIDI INTERFACE for about $149. We have both of these systems and they work just great for small studio setups. The Tascam and most USB interfaces usually require that the hardware be the only unit on a particular USB buss to avoid dropouts. But most recent computers, even laptops, usually have two or three busses with two inputs each, so no problem. Bob Buford, Producer  Summertown Recording Studios Fort Collins, Colorado
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