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Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #698512 01/15/22 03:59 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 9,412 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 9,412 Middlesex, NC	David Snyder beat me to it. I was going to point you to Tom Waits as well. Good singer is a relative concept. To address your question. Obviously the vocaloid community is getting better all the time. Another tried and true solution is to find someone else who is willing to sing the song. Ask a friend. Also.... Work on your own abilities. Most folks can manage to sing well enough for rock and roll. Practice, maybe get a vocal coach, and sing. One of those things should work for you. In all fairness, there are some people who simply can not, and will not ever be able to sing well enough for anything. If you are one of those.... You will have to team up with someone who can. I worked with a cowriter who is definitely in that category. She writes brilliantly but it's fingernails on a chalkboard when she tries to sing. She knows what she is good at and what she's not and works with others who have stronger vocal abilities. That's how you accomplish the impossible. To hear one of the songs she wrote.... Hit my link.... My music.... And scroll down to In a world without you. It's #20 on the list if i recall. She reached out to 2 people who helped put the song together. Myself and a really talented female singer. Last edited by Guitarhacker; 01/15/22 04:01 AM. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #701700 01/29/22 12:33 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2019 Posts: 7 N Nashblogger Newbie
Nashblogger Newbie N Joined: Jan 2019 Posts: 7	Fiverr.com

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #702377 02/02/22 05:18 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2016 Posts: 354 Denmark Peters Garage Journeyman
Peters Garage Journeyman Joined: May 2016 Posts: 354 Denmark	Waves has a PlugIN called Waves Tune Real Time - it is pretty much an Pitch Correct thing - it's not perfect but used with an EQ + delay and reverb you might find your vocal is not as bad as you think. An important thing to note is, you also need a decent Mic the Sh58 will not do any good to your vocal for demos - you need something like this https://www.thomann.de/intl/rode_nt1a_complete_vocal_recording.htm or similar from your local music instrument shop. Last advice from me - practice a lot, and get to know what works well for your voice - find a good body positure and when you have spare moments humm or sing high falset notes and very low notes in order to both train your voice and get to know your body better when you sing and hum. MacMini M1 - BIAB2021 - Logic Pro X - iZotope Music Production Suite - Scaler 2 - far too many Waves plugins and Line 6 Guitars and boards + a fantastic Yamaha THR10ll mini Amp - Avid MBOX Studio Peters' Garage is available on all major streaming services

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #702891 02/04/22 09:29 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,329 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,329 Cooran Queensland Australia	Fiverr is good and the result may vary but are very much better than singing out of tune unpleasantly...there is a cost involved. I don't do the 5vr thing though. I have an appalling voice. The more I use it, listen to it and try again the better it becomes - incrementally though. I have a couple of songs that I can listen to and a bunch that I can't. The synth things works pretty well. Find & phone a friend? Establish a relationship with forum members who may, eventually, offer, or respond positively to, a request to sing for you. Melodyne is pretty good but subtlty is required...I know because I was sledge hammering for a while and the results reflect it. ReaTune, in REAPER, is good but not as sophisticated. Vocal fatteners can help...Reaper has a ReaDelay setting called Vocal Fattener and does juts that. It's a couple of ultra short delays spread a tiny % left and right of the original vocal. Look at you vocal in a parametric EQ and gently boost the weak spots while carefully/surgically cutting back on the strident or rattly spots. Want more bottom end and intimacy - sing close to the mic...want clarity and a rolled off bottom end - more back from the mic. Too much "room" in the capture hang a heavy blanket before & behind you about a meter. Don't hide behind reverb...it does blur and mush the vocal but in the end leaves a smear that can be detrimental to the song. Record a phrase at a time across multiple tracks...ensuring you've a glass of water at hand and a pop screen between you & the mic. OH...find your range and write for it. Mine is quite limited and blah but I've found that the chords in A maj suit me better than other keys because they don't press me to sing higher or lower than I can. OHHHHH, have you tried your falsetto voice? For some time I found that I was clearer and stronger up there than in my natural space...weird but true. As for microphones...eh, they all record...you can work out the foibles of any mic to your advantage. I have a couple of decent medium diaphragm condensers, some very cheap small D condensers and a bundle of dynamic mics. I was in a hurry to get an idea down the other day and grabbed the nearest mic...a cheap dynamic...it required the right amount of preamp boost but did a fine job or recording...I wish my singing was good enough to make the mic seem deficient. RUN with what you have/can afford. A 58 is, after all, a live & studio dynamic with quite a history. It simply needs more "gain" from the preamp because it's neither internally powered like, nor as sensitive as, a condenser. Give it enough juic and it will record what is sung into it and not notice background noise much if at all. Ah...personal question...do you sing relatively quietly so as not to disturb the family and/or embarrass yourself? If the answer is YES then you need to send them all to the cafe or beach so you can get loud and develop you breathing/lung capacity and belt out beyond the rattle - SERIOUSLY. Bon Chance. OH, BIAB has pitch correction too as mentioned...I don't use BIAb to track so don't know the ins n outs of it. Last edited by rayc; 02/05/22 07:13 PM. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #703785 02/09/22 11:21 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 14 Tuxedo, NY, USA G George L Newbie
George L Newbie G Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 14 Tuxedo, NY, USA	Learn some Tom Waits songs.

Re: Poor vocalist rayc #704625 02/14/22 04:49 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Oct 2020 Posts: 51 BLONG OP Enthusiast
OP BLONG Enthusiast Joined: Oct 2020 Posts: 51	Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions. I will implement those that work for me.

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #704694 02/14/22 12:20 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 470 Ireland H Hugh2 Journeyman
Hugh2 Journeyman H Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 470 Ireland	Hi Blong, I am one step behind you I cant sing at all.What I do is I send my guide vocal to a singer from the website https://soundbetter.com/ or https://www.airgigs.com/.This will cost you ranging from 75 dollars and up depending on the singer you ask .It was the only way for me to get a professional sounding demo but its worth it.You will have to process the vocal yourself such as eq,compression,de essing ,reverb etc but their are plenty of instructional videos out there for that and I find it enjoybable ,yours H

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #704710 02/14/22 12:59 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 7,319 Akron, Oh eddie1261 Veteran
eddie1261 Veteran Joined: Apr 2011 Posts: 7,319 Akron, Oh	What level of songwriter are you guys that you will pay $75 a song to have someone sing it? Are you placing songs on CDs? In commercials? Are you so well beyond the hobby level most of us here are that you pay for a singer to perform music nobody will likely ever hear? Just curious. I mean, I am not paying your tabs, but I just have to wonder what kind of music you are cranking out and where it ends up. I mean, none of us are exactly Diane Warren here... I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines. 1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #704722 02/14/22 01:47 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,661 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,661 Mi., USA	Don't under-rate members here. I've actually had forum members pay me 10 times that $75 amount for a given project/task, so everyone here is not a hobbyist. And yes, some has been used in commercials or TV Good gig if you can get it Last edited by rharv; 02/14/22 01:49 PM. Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome

Re: Poor vocalist rharv #704734 02/14/22 02:21 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688 Mark Hayes Expert
Mark Hayes Expert Joined: Jun 2021 Posts: 1,688	Originally Posted By: rharv Don't under-rate members here. I've actually had forum members pay me 10 times that $75 amount for a given project/task, so everyone here is not a hobbyist Even for hobbyists, how much money is that, really, to pay for a good recording of your own music that will last forever? I can think of a lot of things that cost $75, very few of which will add value to my life on anything like that level. I am indeed a mere hobbyist, and I have never hired a musician, but I started considering this approach seriously as soon as I learned of it here. Sometime soon, I really really want to pay a human singer to sing a song of mine, as of now still unwritten, just so I can hear it and share it and have it. Last edited by Mark Hayes; 02/14/22 02:22 PM.

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #704744 02/14/22 02:43 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,661 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,661 Mi., USA	Yes, that in itself has value. For many of us, we have spent more than we made in the long run, but it was still worth every penny. I feel close to breaking even, and have enjoyed all of it .. I have other ways to make money Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome

Re: Poor vocalist eddie1261 #704751 02/14/22 04:04 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 470 Ireland H Hugh2 Journeyman
Hugh2 Journeyman H Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 470 Ireland	Hi Eddie, Here is an example of a singer I got to sing a song.On hindsight I was trying to make the song sound other worldly or from under the water and could have done better with the vocals.The vocalists are really good and they put alot of work in for the money and consider it great value as I have gone to amazing trouble to make a good backing track.The choice I have is a simple one ,I just cant sing or I can sing only to a guide vocal level . This will give you an idea of how good the singers are and more experienced producers on Biab would have done a better Job on the vocals I realize that now ,but im happy enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUQoUJNPDKs&t=129s

Re: Poor vocalist Mark Hayes #704753 02/14/22 04:12 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 470 Ireland H Hugh2 Journeyman
Hugh2 Journeyman H Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 470 Ireland	Hi Here are the examples of Band in a box songs with a singer from soundsbetter I have on soundcloud and I have to say I have no regrets at all and they were extremely professional .H https://soundcloud.com/user-219964721

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #704810 02/15/22 03:15 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 7,860 Pawling New York R Rob Helms Veteran
Rob Helms Veteran R Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 7,860 Pawling New York	One software package I use is Studio one from Presonus it comes with basic Melodyne built in. Just a thought. Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #704971 02/15/22 04:45 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida Planobilly Veteran
Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida	The more contacts you have in the music world the better chance you have to find a musician who can actually do what you want to be done. $75 is a pretty low amount to pay a professional vocalist. $200 to $400 is a good ballpark number for a pro from Nashville for example. New York or London will cost more. Paying a vocalist or other musician to sing or play something you want to create does not need to be profitable. In fact, it most likely will not be. Paying for a vocalist is no different than buying another guitar that you have no real need for. I have spent thousands of dollars producing music that may have sold some but never made a profit. I don't regret spending a penny on it. What to get in the big time? According to the research, acts like Dave Matthews Band, Bruce Springsteen, Justin Bieber (ugh), Justin Timberlake, and Taylor Swift are the most expensive to book, with an estimated rate of $1 million-plus per performance, while it'll run you around $125,000-$175,000 for “Happy” singer Pharrell. There are vocalists on this forum who are wonderful singers and there are some who can not carry a tune around in a water bucket but are super entertaining to listen to. There is no requirement to sing well to be well-liked. Just sing, we will listen and 99.9% of us will be very kind in our remarks. This is a nice place with nice people. Billy EDIT: Just in case you actually want to hire Taylor call the office at (212) 645-0555 and one of our Taylor Swift booking agents will assist you in hiring Taylor Swift for a private event anywhere in the world. Last edited by Planobilly; 02/15/22 04:51 PM. New location, new environment, new music coming soon Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #705147 02/16/22 12:38 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 5,139 Florida 90 dB Veteran
90 dB Veteran Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 5,139 Florida	I would suggest looking for a pro singer through one of the many Nashville services. I had a song that I wanted to pitch in Nashville, and was fortunate enough to hook up with a guy named Brian Nolf, who played in Marty Stuart's band for many years. I sent him the song, with my rough vocal, and he returned it with a lead vocal and two background harmony tracks. It was well-received at NSAI, and was forwarded to their "Pitch To A Producer" program. It wasn't picked up , but I was still pleased with the recording. https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/track/big-time Regards, Bob Last edited by 90 dB; 02/16/22 03:48 PM. Dyslectics Untie! https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/ https://soundcloud.com/90-db https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm_3mpivKYV7T7XFJmXL-GA

Re: Poor vocalist 90 dB #705161 02/16/22 02:05 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida Planobilly Veteran
Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida	Originally Posted By: 90 dB I would suggest looking for a pro singer through one of the many Nashville services. I had a song that I wanted to pitch in Nashville, and was fortunate enough to hook up with a guy named Brian Noff, who played in Marty Stuart's band for many years. I sent him the song, with my rough vocal, and he returned it with a lead vocal and two background harmony tracks. It was well-received at NSAI, and was forwarded to their "Pitch To A Producer" program. It wasn't picked up , but I was still pleased with the recording. https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/track/big-time High-quality country song Bob. Very commercial sounding. This is the sort of song that gets played on today's radio. Perhaps it will get picked up at some point. This is typical of the quality of vocals that you can buy in Nashville. First-class work. This is the sort of song that you can listen to years from now and smile and say I did that and it was worth every hour and every dollar I invested in it. Here is one I did using a Nashville vocalist. https://soundcloud.com/planobilly/mooney?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing Billy Billy Regards, Bob New location, new environment, new music coming soon Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #705281 02/17/22 07:54 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,215 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,215 Sillie Con Valley, California	Quote: As for microphones...eh, they all record...you can work out the foibles of any mic to your advantage Yes. Even the SM57/58 — both sound less than ideal into a modern solid state interface due to mismatched high impedance (these were designed to see the 600Ω Bell Telephone spec found in nearly everything in the '50s–'60s). A little tweak to a barrel connector or a mic cable fixes that and turns these into the excellent mics that they were designed to be. I recommend reading this article on the problem, then the sidebar on what you can do inexpensively to fix it. Recording Mag article on SM57 BIAB 2023 Audiophile, 24/60 Core M2 Mac Studio Ultra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer 11, LogicPro Finale27.4, Dorico5, Encore5, SmartScorePro64, Notion6, Overture5

Re: Poor vocalist BLONG #705291 02/17/22 09:18 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 6,797 Sacramento, California dcuny Veteran
dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 6,797 Sacramento, California	The answer lies in: "I want to record demos." The skill level of your singer needs to be equal to what's expected from your demo. If you're just doing a demo to show off to friends or a band to get an idea of the song, the skill level is pretty low. If you're trying to create demos to pitch songs, applying pitch correction to your voice isn't enough. A good singer doesn't just sing words on pitch, they'll emote and interpret the song in a style-appropriate way. You're paying for the performance, and that's not something that you can add via pitch correction. And just like anything else, you may want to consider hiring out other tasks as well - especially if it's not something you've done before. For example, mixing is a fairly specialized skill. Obviously, you can easily go broke on a pursuit that can quickly eat up a ton of money and bring in no return for your dollar. So at the end of the day, you'll want to also consider what you're willing to pay for a bunch of well-recorded demos of your songs that never got picked up. -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

Re: Poor vocalist Mike Halloran #705317 02/17/22 12:42 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,661 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 21,661 Mi., USA	Originally Posted By: Mike Halloran Quote: As for microphones...eh, they all record...you can work out the foibles of any mic to your advantage Yes. Even the SM57/58 — both sound less than ideal into a modern solid state interface due to mismatched high impedance (these were designed to see the 600Ω Bell Telephone spec found in nearly everything in the '50s–'60s). A little tweak to a barrel connector or a mic cable fixes that and turns these into the excellent mics that they were designed to be. I recommend reading this article on the problem, then the sidebar on what you can do inexpensively to fix it. Recording Mag article on SM57 Wouldn't something with switchable impedance like a VTB1 preamp do the same thing? Seems to here. I don't trust my soldering .. <grin> Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome

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