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I'm pretty good on operating systems but not so good with hardware problems. Here's a quick story and if any of you can help, I would appreciate it.
Like many of you, I am the first call responder for friends. One has a six-month old HP laptop. The sound on the built-in speakers stopped working today.
He first tried calling HP support, which routed him to a support center in India. They took control of the computer remotely and installed lots of stuff on his desktop to no avail.
By the time I got home and went to look at it, my friend had spent three hours on the phone with support. Still no sound.
I checked the obvious, like Device Manager and the mixer. The system sounds showed an audio signal was being generated. He had no external speakers, so I tried plugging in headphones, and they worked. The headphone jacks had never been used. The online tech didn't think of that one...
Short of taking apart the case and checking for a broken wire to the internal speakers, does anyone have any suggestions? It's still in warranty, but there is the hassle of saving all his data and reinstalling if they just replace it.
Thank you.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Obvious probably
Checked system settings for correct output for speakers?
Double checked to make sure nothing is muted in the audio settings? Since this is a fairly new system, I know Win7 is a little more complicatd to check.
Some programs may load at boot that claim the sound routing, which may be a real pain to check.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Checked those, thanks. I've been on Windows 7 for a year, and it's actually easier than prior systems to check devices and settings.
Since the system sounds go to the headphone jack but not the speaker, I tend to think it's a hardware problem.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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There may be some kind of fancy digital sensor which can know if headphones are attached. Such things are not impossible.
For instance, on my new HP Win 7 desktop with an XFi card, I was futzing with the line input getting an old little Alesis parametric eq setup as a mic preamp for digital conferencing with an Audix OM5 mic. Sounds better than cheapie computer mics, and much more durable. I was having an intermittent adapter/wire between the preamp and the line input, and every time I'd unplug the plug from the 1/8" XFi stereo line input jack, Win 7 would pop up a warning that nothing is plugged to the Line Input and the input had been made inactive.
That seemed kinda overkill to me, that every time I unplugged the line input plug Win 7 would turn off the input, and I'd have to revisit the control panel dialog and turn it back on as the default input after I plugged a wire back in. That is the software holding my hand way too much. If I want the line input to always be the default input, then what the heck does Win 7 or the XFi card care if there is nothing plugged in? Annoying.
Anyway, that has nothing to do with your problem, except to demonstrate that sometimes computers/drivers will go to a whole lot of trouble to solve problems that don't exist, and sometimes make it worse in the process.
Have also read that some Apple Mac hardware is smart enough (or perhaps that should be dumb enough) to detect if you unplug a mic or a line input, and automatically reconfigure the audio driver accordingly. Maddening.
So maybe your friend's computer is smart enough to know in the software whether a plug is connected to the headphone jack, and then do software-controlled auto-routing.
However, for many many years on many stereo receivers, boomboxes, portable radios, etc-- The speakers get muted in a much simpler fashion when you plug in the headphones. The headphone jack just contains some switch contacts. If nothing is plugged into the jack, then the audio goes thru the jack switches into the speakers. When a plug is inserted in the jack, it opens the switches and interrupts audio to the speakers. No software wizardry required. Just a simple switch in the jack.
Whether or not the laptop speakers are controlled directly by jack switches, or whether the driver software controls this-- If the driver software controls it, then there has gotta be a jack switch in there to tell the computer whether something is plugged in. So maybe it is a bad switch in the 29 cent headphone jack either way.
If it is a bad jack on the mobo, once you find the exact inexpensive replacement part, it is just a tedious hassle to fix it yerself, or pay a local repairman maybe quite a lot of money to replace the cheap part for you. If its 6 months old and under warranty, maybe make HP fix it?
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Thanks, James. From my days running an electronics store 35 years ago, I just assumed the headphone jack was nothing special and had that disconnect in it like you described. That's way scary if there is some exotic sensor and software doing something as mundane as headphone routing. But thanks for the idea.
I forgot to mention, this laptop has two headphone jacks that function identically. That, to me, reduces the likelihood of anything wrong in the headphone jack switching. But what do I know?
Yes, it's under warranty but my friend doesn't want to lose the use of it during repair, nor undergo the aggravation of backing up and reinstalling into a replacement unit. I recommended he ask HP to exchange his hard drive into an identical unit.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt,
I doubt that HP will exchange the hard drive, not that it would matter, since the Authorization key is hardware dependent, and the hard drive is only a tiny fraction of the key.
I suspect that the speakers are bad, due to a hardware issue. It's no fun, but that's my guess.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Me too. Thanks, Gary.
I did not consider the authorization might not work. I thought perhaps the authorization would see the same hardware and give the same code. Thanks for the alert.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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The possible reason they might want software control over headphones/speakers, is that the user can select software filtering schemes in the driver, which optimize for headphones versus big speakers versus tiny speakers. If the jack tells the computer that a headphone is plugged in, then the software can auto-insert a different dsp software driver module to 'optimize' for headphone output rather than speaker output.
Dollars to donuts that the actual power amp is the same for the headphone feed versus the tiny laptop speakers. The voltage drive is nearly identical for headphones versus tiny speakers, except that the lower impedance of the speakers delivers more power from the same volts when the speakers are connected. Inexpensive commercial 'home-studio' headphone driver boxes often use the same class of little half-watt or one-watt amplifier chips that are used in low-volume portable shortwave receivers or clock-radios or cheapie desktop computer speakers or whatever.
It strains credibility that a manufacturer would include two 25 cent amplifier chips on a laptop motherboard, if one amplifier chip could be used for both headphones and speakers. That is just wild guessing of course. No telling what a manufacturer would choose to do.
One innovative headphone driver was used in early-generation Mackie mixers. Maybe Mackie still uses the same scheme, dunno. Rather than using a possibly-lo-fidelity tiny amplifier chip, or an opamp with current-booster transistors, the Mackie mixers would wire several ordinary opamps in parallel to get sufficient current drive to push headphones. That circuit sounded pretty good IMO.
Which has nothing to do with your friend's problem. Just free-association chain-of-consciousness rambling <g>.
Last edited by JamesChandlerJr; 04/23/10 09:42 PM.
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First best guess is that the internal connector for the speakers got jarred out of its socket in shipping.
Second guess has to do with the fact that most laptop speakers hook up with a 3-terminal connector that shares the Common (-) lead for both sides. If the Common connection is internally broken anywhere inside the lappy, both speakers go out.
I doubt this is a software problem because Matt has already been all over the doggone thing trying to get sound from the speakers.
I also doubt that there are any "sensing" circuits at the earphone jacks. Likely only a mechanical SPST set of switch contacts wired in series for the two headphone jacks.
There is only one Power Amp that is used to drive speakers or earphones, since the earphones are working, we know that the power amp is working. Since that is the case, here is yet another reason not to think that software is the cause. It would simply not be cost effective to use software to switch at the low impedance power amp side of the thing. That would and should take place at the lower power Line level, before the power amp.
Diagnosis (from a distance): The new owner should start the Return Authorization procedure and get it over with.
There is *another* way to approach this situation. Rather than return for service, the new owner should try to get the *dealer* to simply provide a replacement. Within 30 days of purchase, this is usually something that can be done and it eliminates the downtime without the lappy.
--Mac
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Once again, many thanks to all who weighed in. It appears you all came to the same conclusion I did, that this is a hardware problem with the speaker or the speaker connection. I have recommended to my friend that he seek a replacement if the internal speakers are important to him, or just plug some computer powered speakers into the earphone jack.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Yeah, a loose speaker header plug to the mobo seems very likely possibility.
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I have a system here that does as James mentioned; turning audio connections on/off as they are plugged or unplugged. Often guessing at what I want it to do. If I unplug the line in, it enables the mic, and disables it if I connect to line in. Same with headphone/speakers. Dunno if it is software or hardware triggered (I'm sure the hardware is involved obviously) but I was finally able to get it to stop popping up to tell me everything it was doing as a response to what I did. The system still does what it does, but I don't have to close the extra window anymore every time I connect something.
Only caveat was that now if I hook up a monitor using HDMI, it used to ask if I wanted to shut off the onboard LCD, now I have to go do that manually.
Tradeoffs for everything I suppose. just more rambling..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Hello. I am a longtime regular on Dell's Laptop Audio Forum and I just stumbled upon this thread. Here is some general info that echoes what has been said here about the audio jacks. This is for Dells but I think it is the same for HP if the computer in question has HD audio, because the specifications for HD are standardized. Off the top of my head I think the standard calls for reconfigurable jacks.
In the Dell's the jacks are "Universal Jacks" designed by IDT and are reconfigurable. When configured as headphone jacks they have a "sense pin" that triggers switching software, instead of the older mechanical switching system. When the sense pin fails then the system acts as though there is a plug in the jack. Sometimes the sense pin can be made to work if a plug is inserted and gently wiggled.
It can be a hard problem to diagnose because it is a hardware failure that has the symptoms of a software failure. I can tell a Dell owner how to verify that the sense pin has failed but don't know how on an HP.
If the sense pin has failed, the solution is to replace the jack, and that means either replace the jack daughter board if there is one or the entire motherboard if the jack is mounted directly on it. Because the repair can involve a lot of money it is a good idea to have it fixed while still under warranty.
Hope this was of some help. I am reading a lot that is helpful to me on this forum.
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Hi, Jimco -
Are you the same Jimco that was involved in the long discussion over the availability of stereo mix and audio monitoring a few years back when Dell shipped Windows Vista on their systems and their driver didn't provide it? I was one of the ones that complained bitterly about that, and in the end returned the nice Dell laptop I had purchased.
Welcome to the forum here and hopefully you can learn even more.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Jimco, thanks for this info. I still doubt it is the jack itself, since there are two on this laptop and they both behave the same. Also, they have never been used until I just tested them.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt, I could easily believe that even with two headphone jacks, according to what Jimco has said, that it might not be the jacks at all, but a daughter board, or the sense signal to the HD audio chip. In fact, I would suspect that it was the chip itself, not the jacks. Can you tell me what HP computer he has? You might also want to look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLlDLVXvRA4Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Thanks Gary. Hadn't thought of that, either.
I'm not in town now; when I get back Monday I'll see what model it is.
_________________________________________________________________
Oh, man, that video! Just push the magic button!
Really something.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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John, yes it is I. Sorry to say that Dell has not changed for the better but then neither have I so I am still manning the laptop audio board.
Matt, it's either the jack, the speakers, or a loose/broken connection to the speakers. For what it is worth, on the Dell models with 2 headphone jacks when the sense pin becomes a problem then in the audio control panel one of the jacks will be marked that it is "in use". [The purpose of the 2 jacks on those models is that they and the mic jack can all be configured as 5.1 surround line-out jacks.]
In the Dells there is a bootable diagnostic partition that runs outside of the Windows operating system. If the speakers work in that diagnostic environment then one knows that there is not a hardware problem with them and that leaves the jack as the culprit (or software but by this point one would have already reinstalled the audio driver and doubled checked configurations etc). That pretty much nails it but the diagnosis can be completely confirmed by restoring the computer to its original factory configuration which eliminates all possibility of a software issue (because the speakers did originally work in that configuration).
Conversely, if the speakers do not work when running the bootable diagnostic test then that confirms that there is a hardware failure, and one knows the failure is after the signal reaches the jack so the speakers or connection is the culprit. The possible failure of the sense pin does not affect the way the Dell diagnostic test works (ie the speakers will be tested whether or not the sense pin has failed) because the switching software is part of the Windows driver and Windows and the drivers are irrelevant to the test. So if HP has an equivalent diagnostic partition it could prove useful. If there is one then HP support will probably have your friend use it anyway before they authorize repairs.
Last edited by jimco; 04/25/10 08:12 AM.
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Thank you, Jimco. I will look for that.
I will also try pressing the magic 'button' as in Gary's video.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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As a tech moderator on a general computer help forum, first I confirm Jimco as correct and that the most likely fault being the common return or ground pin from the speakers to the motherboard, or jack daughter board being the source of the fault, not been inside a HP so don't know exactly where the speaker wires go to from the speakers. Even though the machine is under warranty and should go back for repair, if that is to be avoided, then a careful dismantle and visible check will show if the plug has come off the board. For general laptop dismantling and repairs advice have a look here-- http://www.laptoprepair101.com/
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Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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