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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6 |
Running latest BIAB10 Realtracks comes up with WRONG CHORDS, seemingly at random. This was first noticed in SOLO PIANO accompaniments. I have upgraded and reinstalled the latest version of Realtracks.
I have tried regenerating individual tracks but this glitch still appears sporadically.
Have reported this issue to BIAB who requested a copy of the corrupt file which was sent. They replied and confirmed there was a problem but offered no solution.
Anyone out there having a similar prob or is it an issue with my computer???
Cheers: Nolo
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196 |
Give us more details.
What chords did you enter and what chords do you think are being played back? (Are any shots and holds ?). Also what Realtracks are you referring to and what style.
RE F
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 493
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 493 |
The short answer is yes - I've noticed it as well at times, usually with a 7th chord or some other off shoot of a basic chord, and I know that from time to time the patches that PG makes available correct these errors, so let them know specifics and they will get it fixed. There are still some bugs here and there but stick with it, it is worth it.
Good luck.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
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Problem is - it is difficult to nail down a particular chord as the anomaly is random, as I said. Appears to be mainly dom 7th with the occasional m7. eg - when a bum chord turns up I can regenerate the realtrack which may solve that particular chord issue but it is likely that another unrelated glitch will turn up on the same track. Most vulnerable instruments seem to be acc piano and el bass.
Also - I think that the realtracks concept is very good and when it reaches its potential, hopefully with third-party suppliers, it will change production approaches entirely. This is worth fixing.
Meanwhile - wrong chords?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196 |
I have already posted some time ago a problem with piano 7th chords in the Vancouver style. Sometimes the piano will "jazz up" these chords and for most tunes
this can sound wrong.
Here is my original post:'Odd notes on 7th chord' I think was the title:
"However, I use the Pop Vancouver style quite often and playing through a song it always bothered me why often amongst the chord note combinations used in B&B that are pieced together there seemed to be a wrong note or notes during the 7th chord piano playback. It only seems to affect those types of chords or least they are the ones that stand out for me.
I have started looking at this in more detail. While some notes are possibly acceptable passing tones, examples of the odd notes to my ear are as follows:
In one of the offending F7 chords (others are OK) which should have the notes F, Eb, C, A, B&B was playing on the piano (on the first beat) Db, A, F . Well A, F are OK but Db?? Perhaps what was meant was Eb.
An offending G7 chord which has the correct chordal notes F, D, B, G the piano plays notes in sequence G, G, D, F, E, C#, A, G, D, A. Well E is in the G6 chord and A in the G9 chord are sort of acceptable but the C# sounds off. Perhaps D was meant. Another is B, C#, E, A ??
A particular D7 chord has notes D, C, A, F#. On the first beat in one song the following notes are played at the same time A, Eb, F#, D. Playing this on my piano sounds like some sort of diminished chord not a D7 with the rouge Eb note. Perhaps D was meant. Another example is C, F#, B??
It’s not all Vancouver style. Here in B140GTP Bossa an A7 chord (E,C#, A, G) the following notes are played together F#, B, G ?? None of notes except G are in the chord.
As noted above most 7th chords sound OK but in some B&B generations many sound off to me.
Perhaps some might say the above is “acceptable” in jazz, but to me Vancouver style is not Jazz as its sounds orchestral and I believe should be played with straight chordal an perhaps with limited acceptable passing notes."
One workaround is to replace the 7th chords with a 9th chord. I use this often now.
Cheers F
Post Extras: Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Email Post
Cheers F
Last edited by FrankK; 05/02/10 09:07 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6 |
FrankK- thanks for your response.
Maybe bb has a problem reconciling the overtone series with their relevant chord families. eg the A7 chord you mention with F#, B and G would actually be an A13th, where G+7th, B=9th and F#=13th. This fits into a II-V-I scenario in key of D, as in Bm7-A13-Dma7. this would be fine for a jazz bossa but could be uncomfortable in a rock/country song.
Substituting a 9th chord may work in some cases but the #11 (b5) may pose a problem. In a bossa situation a D9 would probably heading into a Dbma7.
The prob I am looking at is when the chords entered in the score come up with the incorrect samples or addresses, and it seems that others have experienced the same thing.
All this technology makes us lazy, which is fine by me if the flow is not slowed down.
Cheers: Nolo
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Yes.
While it is rather common for a jazz pianist to sub the 13th for the Dom7 chord, typically in a turnaround, for a Pop style I don't think that's warranted.
Rather like playing in a rock band where the organist has recently discovered that big handful of 13th chord and uses it wantonly at the wedding gig <grin>
Give PGMusic some time, I think they are going to be ironing these anomalies out.
For us, it is just a few chord entries and some button pushes. On their end, solving these problems may be as simple as editing the map -- or it might entail a re-recording session of the target RealTracks involved, let's hope it isn't that...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
There's been a NEW UPDATE, Build 299 posted since this morning. http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#299 Check this out: Fixed: 7,m7,m7b5 slash chords were not working for RealTracks. Maybe it also has improved non-slash usage? Worth finding out... --Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,608
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,608 |
I would hope that the way dom 7th chords are played now would stay the same, at least for the jazz players. For the pop players there should be be a button to keep chords exactly as typed in. Being a be-bop player, I like the added 9ths, 13ths and #11s, the way a live jazz pianist would play. Choices are what's needed. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6 |
Mac - Re: "For us, it is just a few chord entries and some button pushes. On their end, solving these problems may be as simple as editing the map -- or it might entail a re-recording session of the target RealTracks involved, let's hope it isn't that..."
What is this "map" thing? I don't know much about the technicalities of this program but perhaps this is where my prob lies. It is not a prob with chord voicing.
The random "WRONG CHORDS" appearing on "888 piano accoustic" track are a semitone higher than the song key. Regenerating the single track changes this but the 1/2 bar transposition can appear elsewhere.
Have installed rev 299 - no difference.
Any one have any further sugs?
Cheers: Nolo
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
My wording, "map" -- for whatever rule set that the developers apply "under the hood" of the program that tells each RealTrack what part or loop of the total performance to play at a certain time, which of the three raw RealTracks files to use in order to transpose, that sort of thing. I would think that there must be one such "map" in there somewhere for each and every RealTrack, most likely it is in the file that appears in the same folder as the RealTrack with the same name but a different suffix and it is NOT an audio file.
That said, I wouldn't want to go into those files mucking about without a lot more info, I think that is something for the development team at this point in time.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2010
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The latest Realtracks upgrade looks like it has resolved this problem.
My thanks to biab and all responders.
Cheers: Nolo
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Cool.
Thanks for taking the time to report the good news.
And Have Fun!
--Mac
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