If I want to make a 120bpm 12/8 track play in Biab I have to set the base tempo to 80 and the main tempo to 80. You should be able to have the chord entry per beat rather than having to enter a comma for two chords two beats so if you up the time signature per bar you can just select the beat and enter the chord. I'm getting a headache thinking about it, I'm forever finding workarounds over the years, sounds like more worms, again just mod the BBPlugin I think. It's like that as it was made for backing/learning and never thought it would be used to create songs/add tracks to a DAW.
Are there more users now that want it for tracks in a DAW or more that want a backing band ????
You need to think musically, not based on DAW math. 12/8 time signatures have tempos around 40-90, and are counted as 4/4, not in “12” The tempo of the 12/8 song you posted is 80, not 120 as you’ve set it up in reaper. === If you were thinking musically, that slow blues shuffle you posted would have just been done in 4/4 at tempo of 80, and would never have needed an artificial transformation to a tempo of 120. You would have just stayed in 4/4, and maybe added a few tracks of your own playing, and ended up with a great sounding blues song.
Just tap your foot … that’s the tempo. These compound time signatures like 12/8, 6/8, 9/8 are for the NOTATION display only, and they’re not how you play them musically.
Thanks Peter for the video links that explains the subject very well. So I see how that is done musically. I also appreciate the fact we can do this with the microchords. This was a great new feature.
I guess my question would be, would a video to show how this can be transferred to a typical DAW be possible. Maybe this could benefit a lot of the users here that are commenting on this.
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> I guess my question would be, would a video to show how this can be transferred to a typical DAW be possible. Maybe this could benefit a lot of the users here that are commenting on this.
We could make a video. It would be something like this.
- time signatures 1. Simple 4/4 3/4 2/4
2. - compound time signatures (groups of triplets, for notation only, still played and counted in /4) 12/8 (variation of 4/4) 9.8 (variation of 3/4) 6/8 (variation of 2/4)
3. - irregular time signatures 5/4 , 11/8, 9/8 but counted as 4+4+1
The most important point to me is realizing that “compound” time signatures are just for notation. And that means you can stick with 4/4, 3/4 and 2/4 unless you have a genuine “irregular” time signature like 5/4, or the rare case of something like 9/8 that isn’t counted with triplets and is treated like 4+4+1
In the world of pop music, irregular time signatures aren’t that common. BiaB handles any x/4 time signature (eg 5.4 as 3/4+2/4) , and also handles the compound time signatures (12/8, 9/8, 6/8) for notation, and micro-chord entry on each beat.
There’s another time signature used for notation only - 2/2 aka “cut time”. That’s where you notate a bar of sixteenth notes as two bars of 8th notes, to make it more readable. That’s another variation of 4/4, used to notate music with lots of 16th notes (as played) , like bluegrass or samba, so that they get notated as 8th notes.
In terms of using them in a DAW, only the simple (4/4, 3/4) and the irregular types (5/4, 7/4) should be used imo. Things run off the rails if the compound time signatures (12/8) are treated as if they have 12 beats per bar (instead of 4 in 4/4).
..................... Just tap your foot … that’s the tempo. These compound time signatures like 12/8, 6/8, 9/8 are for the NOTATION display only, and they’re not how you play them musically.
Thanx Peter for this explanation. But I still would like real time signatures that I can work with in my DAW
Yes a video would be very helpful.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
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Thanks also Peter for the length of detail that you have provided. It is appreciated.
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I'd appreciate seeing a video that explains time signatures and why notation differs from counting or foot tapping. Understanding that a notation time signature is used to make the sheet music easier to read makes a lot of sense. That's kind of a light bulb moment for me!
I can explain where the DAWS frequently go “off-the-rails” with the compound (aka triplet) time signatures like 6/8, 9/8, 12/8. And the DAW mis-treatment of 12/8 as having two 8th notes = 1 beat (instead of 3), which leads people down a rabbit hole, wondering what the tempo is supposed to be, and what the heck is going on.
Imagine a 4/4 song, tempo of 60. Let’s say it’s a slow triplet feel blues. Now it has triplets throughout it, and someone prefers to call it 12/8. That is completely normal, and they could call it 12/8. Now musically, we still call the 12/8 file as having tempo of 60. This is indicated as putting [dotted quarter note = 60] indicating that THREE 8th notes = 1 beat. - the problem is that some DAWS look at 12/8, and think that TWO 8th notes = 1 beat. So they think the tempo of the file is 90, which would be needed to play the 12 notes (6 beats) in one bar. This would put the beats at non-musical points in the bar [beat 1, triplet 1] [ beat 1, triplet 3] [beat 2, triplet 2] etc. - do now in the DAW we’ve lost the idea that this was ever a tempo = 60 song.
So the DAW is thinking that there are two 8th notes per beat, whereas COMPOUND time signature by definition have THREE 8th notes per beat. (12/8, 9/8, 6/8). If the DAW had a setting to declare that this is 12/8, but THREE 8th notes per beat, all would be well, and they would set the tempo to 60, which is the correct tempo, not 90.
Of course all this goes away if you just leave the time signature at 4/4 at tempo of 60, which BiaB does. And BiaB gives you the option to view as 12/8 notation, while preserving the 4/4 playback. As a bonus, you get to mix n match with the 90% of RealTracks and realdrums that are 4/4 based.
Time signatures are flexible and a lot of what we play doesn't neatly fall into any particular meter.
I remember when I was in the school stage band (back then the word "jazz" wasn't used in school) we played a lot of charts from the big bands, Woody Herman, Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman, etc.
They were almost always written in cut time, but played at slow to moderate tempos would have made more sense at 4/4.
Plus, most were written with eighth notes when they were swing tunes, and they were played more like triplets. But a quarter note and eighth note with the triplet designation on top of every pair would have made a messy chart. If you understood the eighth notes should be done as a swing pair, it was much easier to read.
Some charts used dotted eighths/sixteenths to designate the swing feel, but that was just as off.
12/8 would have worked better, but 12/8 is harder to read for the less experienced players that also found their way into the big bands of old.
That's why our brains have to be flexible.
It's also why I think of the numbered matrix in BiaB as cells instead of bars. It allows me to make music with BiaB that would be difficult or impossible to do with one cell limited to one bar.
For example: When I was doing Jethro Tull's "Living In The Past", which is in 5/4 I could make one cell have 3 beats and the next 2 beats. That made two cells equal one 5/4 bar of music.
Plus to get the smoother feel Tull uses on that song, I made the tempo of each 3 beat cell a little faster than the 2 beat cells. It's how the band got the smoother feel out of 5/4.
That trick is similar to how most conductors interpret the 5/4 waltz movement in Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony.
But then, I don't use BiaB for notation. I find the notation editor a great help, but I use BiaB for auto-accompaniment. In the rare instances when I need notation, I'll use an old copy of Encore that I bought years ago. For a head chart, that's all I need. YMMV
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 11 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
XPro Styles PAK 11 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 (and higher) is here with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 31 RealTracks/RealDrums!
Guess who’s back again? That’s right! It’s our XPro Styles PAK’s triumphant return with the 11th edition in this series! 100 new styles are coming your way spread across the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres. And this edition's wildcard genre explores the immense and far-reaching catalogue of electronic music! The included 31 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2026 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 22 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2026 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
It’s time to celebrate! Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Band-in-a-Box® is here, and we've got 200 brand-new styles coming your way!
No Xtra Styles PAK is complete without the classic rock & pop, jazz, and country volumes you know and love, and we’ve got plenty to share, with 150 styles spread across too many genres to list! Of course, it also wouldn’t be complete with our special wildcard volume to add a little spice and pizzazz to the mix. This year, because we loved it so much the first time, we’ve decided to make the second iteration of our SynthMaster volume, full of new sounds, interesting genres, and 50 engaging styles, all making use of the diverse SynthMaster plugin! Here you can find genres such as airy yacht rock, sultry electrotango, and even some synth soca funk. Don’t wait, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 22 today!
In this PAK you can find: dulcet folk ballads, funky gospel country, Brazilian jazz fusion, upbeat 1980s pop, classic Americana, a plethora of breezy bossa novas, indie singer-songwriter, scintillating synthwave, exuberant electronica, and many, many more!
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 22 requires the 2026 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
zplane recently interviewed Peter Gannon, the founder and creator of Band-in-a-Box, about the software's early days, what sets it apart from AI, how zplane's audio algorithms are used in Band-in-a-Box, and more!
Special thanks to the team at zplane for their continued support.
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