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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211 |
I've been grasping at straws for days now trying to figure this out and I figured by now I'd know what I was doing wrong.
Occasionally I would like to use BIAB to generate some solos for the solo-sections of the play-along CD's that I own. Most of these play-along's are from the Hal Leonard group -- Each of my books contain sheet music for a dozen or so jazz tunes and each book also contains a play-along CD with the backing tunes in MP3 format.
In a nutshell, I would like to be able to pull the MP3 in as an audio file (I've been using Audio Chord Wizard to do this), then pass this to BIAB where I could then instruct the soloist to create various instrument solos (one at a time) at a certain bar, for so many bars. I figured this would be great because I could listen to the solos one after another (picking a different instrument each time) and then finally choose the best solo arrangement (or combine different notation from one or more of these solos). I then just print the sheet music for my soloist instrument (i.e. trumpet, guitar, piano) and away I go! This is ideal because it lets me hear the solos against my backing track -- I could just type in my chords, set the style and let the program go, but then I don't get to hear the solo against my backing track. Also, I don't improvise well with piano and guitar and so, I actually do need more than the basic chord progressions to work from (the improved solo chords in my sheet music).
So, I thought that this would be pretty straight forward, but here's what is going on as best as I can explain it:
1. I'll pick a play-along tune.
2. The tune is in the key of: C and I want to solo for trumpet (B-flat instrument).
3. I use Audio Chord Wizard to pull in my MP3. Everything goes as planned and I send it to BIAB.
4. I test play it back in BIAB and sounds / looks good. BIAB notation shows I'm in the key of C.
5. Let's say that my solo needs to start off with the note - Middle C.
(at this point, when I play from my Hal Leonard book the MP3 is playing back fine and I'm in tune -- no problem). However ...
6. If I go into editable notation and insert a Middle C and play the note back, although it sounds okay (between my horn and the backing track), and it looks okay (my notation), when I have BIAB play the note however, it appears to be consistently off somehow -- I want a to hear my PC playing the note - C against the audio track (my backing track), but it seems like it's tone is a B-flat.
I can't change the key -- throws everything off. Can't transcribe -- throws everything off. The only thing left I thought to do was to try to set the Audio Chord Wizard to adapt by setting the 'out of tune' feature before sending it to BIAB but all that does is change the key!
I'm lost! Thank you in advance. I'm not thinking straight about this.
Ike
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
You are aware that a trumpet play in Bflat. Thus to get a C you need to play a D. Or to get an F you play a G. There are rare C trumpets.
Other horns play in E, and I have a 3 valve G bugle. All require various transpositions.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 493
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 493 |
"I could just type in my chords, set the style and let the program go, but then I don't get to hear the solo against my backing track."
You could make a copy of the original .mp3 and rename it to the same as your song in BIAB (if it is different) and have BIAB play the .mp3 as an audio file. Then if you have typed in the chords in BIAB for the song correctly - and since you have the book with them it should be correct - you can generate the solo(s) in BIAB and mute all of the other instruments so only your soloist and the .mp3 play. That might work.
Good luck.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Sounds like he might have set BiaB to Transpose for the Trumpet...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211 |
Let me see if I can do a better job at explaining my problem ...
The program's Notation Preferences for the Transpose field is set to Trumpet (+2).
My sheet music is written for Trumpet (a B-flat instrument). At least that's what it says at the top of my sheet (the text reads Trumpet). For this given song that I'm using as an example, the paper sheet music shows me the song is in the key of-C. Outside of BIAB when I play along, my sheet music follows the MP3 playback intonation just fine (if I play a middle-C off from the original sheet music with my trumpet, the MP3's middle-C sounds the same).
Okay, I pull the MP3 into Audio Chord Wizard and it automatically sets the key to-C (I didn't have to do anything). When I move it to BIAB it shows me it's in the key of-C (the field to set the song's key shows this), however although the chords appear to be correct, the notation shows that I'm playing the key of-D.
The problem is that my sheet music (outside of BIAB) shows the key of-C (there, I would have no sharps or flats). The notation inside BIAB shows the key of-D (there, I would have F# and C#).
And yes, when I listen to a MIDI note-C on the staff played back by BIAB it's tone matches my trumpet's C. I'm not having a problem understanding that issue. What I'm having a problem with is that when I print my solo sheet out of BIAB, it doesn't match the key of the play along sheet music (which shows the key of-C). I'm in a different key depending on which one I use to play with (the original paper music in key-C, or the BIAB-produced solo in key-D, although the solo played over the MP3 sounds like the right key).
I don't feel like I'm getting what's happening although I'm trying hard to understand. I desperately need to understand before I can go any further and I appreciate all who can help me understand.
Thanks again.
Ike
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
I think you have to first turn off the BiaB Trumpet transpose feature, so that BiaB is "thinking" in Concert keys before doing the ACW.
AFTER doing the ACW and sending it to BiaB, then you can turn on the transpose feature again.
The song is really in Concert Bb...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
When I started learning horn at the young age of 50, I had a terrible time with it. My wife, who has 7 years of University and 15 years of piano and theory all in music just sailed along helping me. Now I get it. Took several years. Makes it tricky if I want to sing and play along at times, due to the fact I often like, say the key of A, so I end up playing in 5 sharps. At the outset that was out of the question, but I'm almost there, no key shakes me too badly. I don't like it much to be handed bass clef and told to add 3 flats, I just pass the music to my wife over 2 chairs and she writes the treble clef equivalents for the piece which for her takes like 2 minutes a page. Pees me off to no end that I can't do that...but now that the next birthday is the 60th I'm thinking about learning the sexaphone just fer fun.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
Quote:
You could make a copy of the original .mp3 and rename it to the same as your song in BIAB (if it is different) and have BIAB play the .mp3 as an audio file. Then if you have typed in the chords in BIAB for the song correctly - and since you have the book with them it should be correct - you can generate the solo(s) in BIAB and mute all of the other instruments so only your soloist and the .mp3 play. That might work.
Good luck.
Barry has it right. Import the audio track, no need for the ACW and just enter the chords from your book.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211 |
My daughter and son-in-law have an apartment building and people moved out (one of those "thief in the night" moves). Evidently they moved just a bit too quick and left behind a nice flute and case.
Several years ago I had an accident which involved spine and head injuries. I've been on permanent, total disability since. Now I have trouble remembering things. Sometimes climbing back into music is so frustrating but my family and doc say it's all good. Things like this are especially troubling since I tutored piano and trumpet years ago and sometimes it's like I pick up the trumpet and feels totally foreign to me ... other times it's like there's never been a problem. So, I'm very thankful to all of you for answering (and re-answering) my questions -- some of them I'm ashamed to ask, but thankfully the non-contact, Internet environment is the perfect forum for me, otherwise I'd probably hang the music up permanently.
Anyhow, my daughter wants to know if I want to take up flute! OMG! Could I possibly confuse myself any further!
I'm already combining piano, guitar, trumpet. I'm now a comeback trumpet and a bit more serious on the guitar these days but my old jazz friends encourage me with my trumpet playing.
The Flute? I'm on the fence for now.
Ike
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211 |
Quote:
Quote:
You could make a copy of the original .mp3 and rename it to the same as your song in BIAB (if it is different) and have BIAB play the .mp3 as an audio file. Then if you have typed in the chords in BIAB for the song correctly - and since you have the book with them it should be correct - you can generate the solo(s) in BIAB and mute all of the other instruments so only your soloist and the .mp3 play. That might work.
Good luck.
Barry has it right. Import the audio track, no need for the ACW and just enter the chords from your book.
Bob
Bob,
My sheet music doesn't have any chords printed.
Ike
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 211 |
Quote:
I think you have to first turn off the BiaB Trumpet transpose feature, so that BiaB is "thinking" in Concert keys before doing the ACW.
AFTER doing the ACW and sending it to BiaB, then you can turn on the transpose feature again.
The song is really in Concert Bb...
--Mac
Mac,
I did this and as soon as I go back in and turn on the transpose feature (to trumpet), the notation switches to the key of-F (although when I use the soloist to generate a solo it sounds correct).
If I printed this out and handed it to a B-flat trumpet player, he'd still be off.
Ike
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259 |
I'm also a comeback trumpet player and I use a lot of playalong cds. My wife plays flute so we have a lot of the same cd playalongs with books. While the sheet music is obviously in different keys for the trumpet and flute, the cds are in the same key. All of the cd playalongs that I have are written for a C instrument. The same is true for fakebooks unless you buy one for a Bb instrument (these are not common).
You might want to check the video for the Real Band features. In it they show you how to put the chords in for an audio (mp3) file. They use the ACW to do that. However, I confess that I have not done what you are trying in BIAB. I have done a lot of arrangements for songs in BIAB for my wife and I. I always do it for a C instrument first. Then I save the file. Next, I transpose the melody up an octave for the flute and print out the notation. Then, I undo that transpose via the Edit menu. Next, I transpose for the trumpet by changing the key signature as needed. I then print out the notation. Finally I undo the transpose. The end result is that we now have the BIAB song, and notation printouts for both the flute and trumpet. If you play without charts, you don't need to bother with any printouts.
If I'm just starting from scratch before any chords are entered, etc., I use BIAB. If I'm working with existing tunes, tracks, or whatever, it's easier for me to use Real Band. If you have an existing BIAB song and all you want to do is change the style, then BIAB is the way to go. YMMV.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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