First, let me preference this by saying I have always performed live with live musicians so I have NO experience with backing tracks. However, I have a much more varied repertoire than the musicians I know so opportunities to practice certain pieces and potential gigs pass me by that I could do solo with a backing track. For that reason, I am considering purchasing Band in a Box (Windows version) to make backing tracks to use for solo performances.
I already have my leadsheets in uncompressed Music XML format so I was hoping I wouldn’t have to recreate new tracks from scratch. It is my understanding that Band in a Box can import and create BiaB files from uncompressed MusicXML files.
The sheet music app on my tablet will play MP3 files when a sheet opens so this seems like the simplest & most logical way to play the backing tracks I create on cue from a setlist. My research also tells me BiaB will render MP3’s. I plan to output the backing track & my lead into a single powered speaker that is more than adequate for my situation.
The last hurdle is a click track and count-in. It is my desire to utilize a count-in and click track to stay on the page, as I will be working from sheet music. I was hoping to use my in ear monitor when performing with the click track in one ear and the backing track in the other.
Can BiaB render a two-channel MP3 file with just a count-in and click track on one channel and the backing track on the other? If not, how do I best accomplish that?
I did some research and assume I am correct in my belief the importing uncompressed MusicXML files and creating BiaB files from those and rendering MP3 files isn’t an issue with the latest version of Band in a Box.
Thank you in advance for any insight and suggestions and my apologies if these topics have been covered to exhaustion elsewhere on the forum pages.
I'm unsure about the click-track/backing-track arrangement you're considering as I always just use the two as they come. You could create a separate track for count-in, but there may be an easier way ... over to the others for that.
Importing XML usually works fine. There are one or two odd wrinkles occasionally. In particular I think BiaB still gets confused by cut-time. I've just been changing the original to common-time to work around that.
FWIW, observation not recomendation, I use MuseScore to create my leadsheets, export those as musicxml for BiaB and .pdf for MobileSheetsPro on a tablet.
Addendum: BTW, PGM are said to be very well behaved on their money-back-if-it's=not for you. Also, buying the entry-level (named "Pro") version and upgrading to UltraPAK or possibly Audiophile editions is usually slightly cheaper than buying an UltraPAK right at the start. Most people once convinced that BiaB is for them then upgrade.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 08/24/2206:59 AM. Reason: addendum
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
First let me clarify if you misunderstood, I want to render a single MP3 file with Band in a Box that has one channel containing BOTH the count-in and the click track with the second channel the accompaniment. Whether BiaB can accomplish this by itself is an answer that has seemed to elude me in my research.
In regards to the XML files, I too use MuseScore and have always been in the habit of exporting the close to 2000 sheets I've created in MuseScore as uncompressed MusicXML files in addition to PDF's. In regards to the cut time confusion, is it the cut time symbol on an MusicXML score that confuses BiaB or 2/2 time in general?
Coincidentally I also use MobileSheets Pro. Its ability to play MP3's when a sheet is opened should work perfectly for my needs. To me the whole set-up appears to be easy and inexpensive as I already have most of what I need with the exception of BiaB, a DI box and a decent patch cable to go from my tablet to the Di box.
One solo gig might actually cover my start-up costs. However, I don't want to spend those funds unless I'm sure I can do what I want.
...I want to render a single MP3 file with Band in a Box that has one channel containing BOTH the count-in and the click track with the second channel the accompaniment. Whether BiaB can accomplish this ...
Pretty sure that the answer is No. BIAB can pan a track hard right or hard left, but even if you could do what you want in BIAB, I think it's far easier done in a DAW.
ps You are far from clueless; as Gordon said, you did your research. And, nice user name. Welcome to the forum.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I understood OK. I'm presuming that you send the mono accompaniment to one ear and the PA and the click track to the other ear, so the audience don't hear it.
My initial reaction was like Matt's ... transfer to a DAW and pan/mix the tracks as you wish before rendering, but I think you may need a dedicated click track in BiaB for that ... it's easy enough to do, but it is an extra task. BiaB normally does the count-n on the drum track, so one may have to turn that off first.
I just held back a little wondering if there were any other, possibly better, options.
BTW, when importing XML and/or MIDI, sometimes one has to set an offset to get the notes/chords to start in the correct bar. When you do the import, you get a dialog box with the tracks and channels, and the offset tweaks are in the bottom right-hand corner. It's easy enough when you try it.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
With very Windows' version of BiaB comes with a free DAW, RealBand (RB). You can bring in your song, add your click track, and still be able to generate backing tracks, i.e. you can add chords and generate songs like you can in BiaB. RB can read BiaB files so you can go back and forth between programs. You can also save you files in many different formats, including wav and MP3.
I do not use RB but many here do and have produced professional sounding songs and all will be able to help you if/when you run into trouble.
On a side note everyone here will help you. This is the most friendly site on the web and many here have a ton of knowledge about BiaB, RB, music theory, etc and they all share their information.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor. It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I guess I could also generate an after-the-fact separate count-in and click track in Audacity, which I already use.
It is just an extra step I was hoping to avoid since from the get-go in order to make this effort pay for itself literally and figuratively, I will have to render MP3's for 85 songs in addition to dealing with the learning curve on the software and additional equipment and be ready to rehearse, create a demo and roll in two month's time.
Not impossible, but I have a day job...
I guess I'll add "generate separate channel count-in and click tracks" to my BiaB wish list...
Band-in-a-Box master tracks are rendered as a stereo mix. There is a setting to include a one or two bar MIDI generated count-in before the music starts. Most of the RealDrum audio tracks include a one or two bar audio count-in. So obtaining a count-in should not be an issue.
To have a metronome click on one channel and the instruments on the other channel the master track would need to be rendered as dual mono. Band-in-a-Box does not have the capability to render a master track in dual mono.
Audacity can convert a stereo track into mono, create a click track and combine two mono tracks into a dual mono track but all of that is additional work after the backing tracks are created and rendered.
If you're willing to give up the discreet click track you would not need to use Audacity and all of those additional steps. Band-in-a-Box provides a count-in and you can play or sing along with the music.
I know that I can do this is my DAW so please someone familiar with RB let us know if you can do this in RB.
In RB create as single track of a click track, then save it as a MIDI file. Load your BiaB song into RB, copy the single click track to a blank RB MIDI track, duplicate and/or truncate the click track to the end of the song, then save the song as a MP3. In my DAW the MIDI track will automatically sync to the tempo. So the question is can RB automatically sync tracks?
Just a thought as this way you would only need to create one click track and copy it to each of your songs.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor. It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
i'm not exactualy sure re what you want to do mate, and i'm not trying to be obtuse but there are many different ways to create a basic clik trak in rb as well as very fancy drum traks......and i dont want to put you wrong , thus i would fire rb up..and youll see you can easily create midi and/or audio clik drum traks. and actually do pretty snazzy stuff eg lets say youve set a tempo of 120 and then laid down a clik trak...if you NOW change the tempo to 144..the trak will follow the new tempo. you can also cresate 'illusions' like a couple of drummers playing together..or a whole choir of drums..lol.
there are a ton of options in generating either//or//both audio and midi traks. and yes create mp3. i really like the rb mp3 and use it often to post mp3's of my songs to soundcloud. theres just 'something' about the mp3 creeation in rb that sounds nice i cant put my figure on..but i like it.
best bet is to load up the bubba , KEY is to run tests right cliking on a trak, a long menu appears and away you go. and youll see many options mate..also go thru' the rb menus and youll see more options. there is even a handy simple drum pattern generator left over from the 'old days' that might be usefull. then you can plug in a drum vst.
i'm sorry i cant go into further cos this post would get really looooong mate like a book lol..
i hope above helps // ymmv. the prob is soo much to go into mate cos there are loadsa triks to discover in useing rb.
i would post one need/feature you want at a time...then the solution can be posted back.
eg i want to do "A" how do i do it sorta idea.
happiness. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/25/2202:54 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
Mario. i misunderstood. call it 'darn i'm getting older'...lol.
Appoggiatura .
maybe i'm being dense , but i'm unclear from the details given by you how to respond.
have you gone thru the realband (and biab i would suggest ) manuals in detail ? on this site ?. if not i suggest it would be useful to do so as there are soooo many features of each product. my suspicion is realband might meet your needs, i'm just not sure. or the combo of biab and rb. in addition you might want to explain your needs to pg support by phone..cos sometimes it can take lots of time on a forum to break down/describe ones needs.
another way as i said to mario is, break your needs into steps instead of the whole shebang. ie firstly step 1 i want to do "A". then we respond. then you post back "ok". now step 2 i want to do "B"....then we respond etc etc. this way a complete understanding of your needs can be clearly broken down and understood by all.
let me say in closing realband is a very very powerful , and i would suggest, an often very very underestimated program in its features imho AND it has nuances different from biab plus 48 traks you can do lots of neat things with, particularly its many intelligent 'generating features'.. BUT in order to get the best out of realband , like biab, you must be willing to spend time with it..cos it does sooo much. maybe do the 30 day pg trial and see if it meets your needs ?
hth/ymmv.
best
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/26/2212:04 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
<< "Can BiaB render a two-channel MP3 file with just a count-in and click track on one channel and the backing track on the other?" >>
Yes. BIAB can render a two-channel MP3 file with just a count-in and click track on one channel and the backing track on the other without issue and no external software is necessary.
It really isn't that complicated or hard to understand...
I have thousands of songs as MusicXML leadsheets that I was planning to import into BiaB in the hopes of creating Mp3 backing tracks.
So far, it is my understanding this is possible with BiaB alone.
The problem is, I want that Mp3 file to be in the format you get with most commercially produced backing tracks: two channels, one with just the backing track and one channel with just a count-in and a click track synchronized to the tempo.
The reasoning for this is I will be using in-ear monitors with the count-in & click track in one ear and the backing track in the other ear. The mix of my instrument and the channel of just the backing track goes to a speaker so the audience doesn't hear either the count-in or click track which is the way I want it.
As I have already spent thousand of hours creating the sheet music I have, I was HOPING BiaB could save me time by generating a count-in and a click track and render it as a two channel Mp3 file with the clicks separated from the music.
So far, it is my understanding this is NOT possible with BiaB alone.
It may not seem like a big deal to some to go through the extra steps to create a separate click track. However, saving time is important to me as I am looking to initially create 80-100 backing tracks for specific songs in as little a time-frame as possible.
If this is feasible, I have and additional 1000 I would create if it doesn't take me the rest of my life.
Appoggiatura, I have a question. If you are going to have BiaB generate your tracks why do you need a click track? I'm assuming that you play an instrument or are a vocalist. You stated that you have played with live musicians in the past thus you know how to keep time without a click track right? BiaB can generate a number of different count ins and the BiaB rhythm section will keep the beat for you throughout the song. So what am I missing?
PS, and after thought; are you a drummer? In that case you would might/need a click track.
More information would be very helpful.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor. It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
frankly imho i recommend there is nothing like doing actual hands on testing as i said before of a piece of software particularly due to how advanced a lot of the products have become. these products are very deep,
if you DO decide to get these pg products dont assume that just rb is included free with bb that its no good. maybe there is a feature you might not need right now but might in the future….realband has a lot of unique and deep and v useful features you might find useful..
and thats all i'll say in this thread.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 08/26/2204:05 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
...BIAB can render a two-channel MP3 file with just a count-in and click track on one channel and the backing track on the other without issue and no external software is necessary...
Charlie:
How come this information has been so elusive, (at least for me)??
I assume this is in the BiaB manual somewhere??
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Appoggiatura, I have a question. If you are going to have BiaB generate your tracks why do you need a click track?
As a total rookie in regards to playing solo with a backing track and no other musicians to cover-up rhythm errors, you might just say I am paranoid of screwing up in front of people.
Besides, I have watched more than a few musicians using backing tracks chasing the rhythm during a performance and I don’t want that to be me. Think of it as training wheels I may eventually give-up. However, for the time being my confidence will boosted a 1000% with a count-in and click track.
In other words I don't want to fall off my bike before I really learn how to ride it...
Originally Posted By: justanoldmuso
Appoggiatura…ok …clarified…now i have a better picture.
i might be wrong but it looks to me like you can use either biab or realband.
heres the relevant chapter in the rb manual re music xml import etc…..for you to read…
Thanks and thanks to all!!
It might just be time to bite the bullet and start playing around with Band in Box.
This is all somewhat overwhelming to someone who for most of his life played music acoustically or into someone else’s equipment and as a result is clueless about all things related to digital music production, sound equipment and related periphery.
And, I still have to figure out what else I need to buy and how to make it all work with the equipment I already have!!
OK, I did some playing around to find out how to do this.
Charlie may have a better answer, but in the meantime:
I do think you need to create a count-in and click-track, but I think you may need only one assuming you need only 3/4 and 4/4 time, as BiaB will automatically choose the right clicks out of the track to match the time signature and will automatically set the tempo. Doing that does mean you'll need to allow the usual two-bars at the start of every song so your count-in will play, and you'll need to turn off BiaB's count-in.
Drums default to stereo, but in the notation window toolbar there is a checkbox "Mono", which does what it says. Check it and the drum track is now mono.
You'll set up a utility track with the count-in/click stuff and pan that track hard one side, and you'll pan every other track hard the other side. BiaB should then render as Charlie showed.
There are several ways one could create the click track(s). I think I would probably do it with a custom style that I would just set on that utility track, partly to get the count-in style I'd like, but there are a number of standard tracks that may suit just as they are. There are several advantages of making one's own style for this and it's fairly straightforward. Where you may want more than one is if you want your click track to have swing.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
<<How come this information has been so elusive, (at least for me)?? I assume this is in the BiaB manual somewhere??>>
The features used to achieve these results are explained in the BIAB manual but there's no way that all of the possibilities to how features can be used could never be anticipated and explained in the manual. The PG Music Forums are the best resource.
The process steps are mostly the same as what's required to create a backing track/click track combo in a DAW using BIAB exported tracks.
Many instruments in a BIAB project are stereo and a step must be taken to convert any stereo instrument track to a mono track because as noted in earlier posts, the BIAB Master Track renders as a stereo track. A stereo track with panning will have audio at some level across both tracks causing two issues.
One, some of the accompaniment track audio will be heard on the click track and
Two, the accompaniment audio panned to the click track will be lost from the accompaniment audio broadcast.
These issue is resolved by making sure both tracks (Click and accompaniment) are rendered mono tracks.
There should be no audible difference between a backing/click combo track created in BIAB and one created using any DAW. Which to choose really depends on what workflow you're most familiar and comfortable with using.
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However, I don't want to spend those funds unless I'm sure I can do what I want.
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