PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows New Audience, Modern Generation of DAW Only Users

There used to be many more users with many more daily posts but now it can go for days without a post.
You look at other forums and they have not gone down like the PG ones.
I just made suggestions here:
The Future, How Far Away Is It ?
to try and bring a whole new audience to the BBPlugin/BBPlugin Standalone.
Rather than expecting new users to come down to an old limited way of doing things with a steep learning curve of Biab, from the total ease of their DAW .
It would have to be a good thing wouldn't it ? to try and bring modern generation of DAW only users to the BBPlugin once it's all working better how it should, better than Biab main app even. To have it's own professional modern website and new name to get away from the stigma attached to it:

A new modern website, with it's own name, it doesn't take much to make something more modern:



Get well away from the old stigma:

I post when there is a discussion I am interested in.

There are a LOT of posts dealing with coding that I have no interest in.

Hence, limited posting.

...Deb

Studio One is a DAW if that's what you use. Everything needs to be coded Biab, Studio One that's how you have them. If I code a script for Reaper or a Autohotkey script I code that freely for users, they don't need to do the coding.
You have so many functions and features in Biab now that you use that came about by me "coding" things and showing them working and that they can be implemented into Biab/BBPlugin/BBPlugin Standalone. You also have scripting in Studio One for a reason (so guys like me can make up scripts for users to get Biab chords to and from Studio One).
If I wasn't here posting there is SO many features in Biab and a Plugin you simply would not have.

I've been using BIAB for over 10 years. It has worked fine for me all that time.

And the original comment was about why less people are posting. In my case, I ignore posts I have have no interest in and rarely start a new thread unless I run into something I need clarification on. (Or to wish someone happy birthday.) Hence, less posts from me.

700 plus posts in 10 years is not a whole lot - just consider me a normal user. Nothing fancy.

...Deb

When BIAB fist came out it was a pretty unique piece of software. I don't think there was any other software on the market where you can enter chords and get a full backing track with a few clicks. The only other thing that could do something similar, to my knowledge, were the home keyboards of the 80s with an "Auto Comp" feature (like old Yamaha PSR keyboards).
Back then BIAB was a great practice tool (and I believe marketed as such) for guitarists mainly but could also be used to quickly sketch an idea out. I don't think anyone used it for any final production. I think that stigma remains today, that BIAB is a practice tool or sketch pad for ideas.
In modern times, where basically anyone with a little bit of interest can have a small project studio in their bedroom running a pro DAW with tons of astonishing plugins, BIAB compares poorly to its competition on several points. The younger crowd puts a lot more weight on applications needing to be streamlined, offer quick and intuitive workflow, have an attractive GUI and play nicely with other studio software and components. I find BIAB lacking in all of the above. Add to that the popularity of products such as those from Toontrack et al. which ticks all of those boxes and BIAB is sadly outplayed.

I am a working musician and composer and run a small project studio. I use BIAB for practice and on occasion to generate piano and bass MIDI for inspiration that I import into my DAW. I don't use realtracks.

I am sorry Chicago i disagree. I do appreciate your view, and i am sure that in your workflow those things are true for you. But for me with over 30 years of using recording software. i have used BiaB for 20 years now i don't care how fancy slick and streamlined it is i just want it to work. It flat out does. Does it do everything perfectly No!. Toontracks products are plugins. You can not take those plugins and create a 5 piece backing track, unless you place them in a host DAW. EZDrummer will make a drum track, EZbass will make a bass track, same with the rest, BiaB will make all 4 or 5 or 6 in seconds with out a host. Even if all you want is midi to fire up the toontracks plugins it is useful.

Sorry but those programs pale in comparison. I will say it could use a face lift to some degree, but with the depth of programs multifaceted approach to what it was created for, it works great. I have talk to young people who at first glance thought BiaB was old fashioned and complicated. They did not want to use it. Then i demonstrated how i put a band track together and they were WOW that is crazy. Then they gave it a closer look. Every year this program adds some cool tools, I am sure that will continue. It is and will be useful as part of the tool box. Realtracks, and RealDrums are great, but not the end all for every situation. I use them for some projects, sometimes i drag the midi track, sometimes i play the track myself.

We all have different needs. I am not knocking yours. I just disagree with blanket statements like "The younger crowd puts a lot more weight on applications needing to be streamlined, offer quick and intuitive workflow, have an attractive GUI and play nicely with other studio software and components." BiaB does play nicely with others you can create and drag what ever you want and it is not hard to do. Does it fit everyones needs? No, but it has been around since the early 90s and is still going strong. I have talked to several people who use it in small project studios that get a ton of mileage out of it. So i say if it works for you at least to a small point then great. Use the tools that work for you.

I recently upgraded to Ultra and seriously you really do need it to have BIAB.
I think so far as younger people go the price is going to be a bit steep for them
Perhaps consider a version that focuses on rock,folk,folkrock,newage,grunge,country qnd pop
but doesn't come with the other "old folks" styles(but can be purchased separately)
It would have all the real drums and real tracks necessary for those styles it comes with.
Maybe that could reduce the cost to be more attractive to new artists...
Just a thought

Why use Studio One ??? when you have POWER||TRACKS PRO AUDIO it's worked fine for 30 years all that time.

i started using BIAB on floppies. at the time when i went into a famous london store that dealt with digital music prodfuction, BIAB was the only product they had that produced complete backing tracks. cubase, cakewalk etc were around but nothing like BIAB.

those of us that wanted to produce music were the exception rather than the rule. now every teenager wants to produce music in their bedroom like their idols.

totally different market with diffent outlook and tastes.

BIAB purchasers originally come from the musician market........now many software purchasers come from the fan market. and their musical tastes maybe don't include jazz and country. or celtic. or folk. but to call that "old folks" styles may have a grain of truth but doesn't define BIAB's market.

and i agree with Rob Helms that if people looked in greater detail they'd appreciate BIAB. but it does take work and effort. but if it was any easier it would be less capable.

BIAB and RB are great and limitless. the BIAB interface is crowded and the learning curve is steep. but as a friend of mine used to say 'if this is the sort of thing you like you'll like this sort of thing'.

and have you noticed the number of posts recently where users really don't know what midi is? a gap that didn't exist when BIAB started. 'what's midi and why do i need it?'shows the starting point is not what it was when most long term BIAB users set out.

Why not? Studio one fits my needs and interfaces easily with my other Presonus equipment.

Nothing wrong with "PowerTracks Pro" that you mentioned, I like what I have.

...Deb

Bob, I agree that if people looked deeper into Biab they would appreciate it more, but I disagree with the "but if it was any easier it would be less capable" statement. Says who? With PGMusic's convoluted menus and terminology it can be hard for a beginner to get interested in BiaB. Year after year there are many questions on what each package contains, i.e. Pro is an entry level package here but all other companies Pro is the top of the line package. How many cut and paste options do we need? Why are there two print menus? Etc etc. IMHO the menus, BiaB, and packaging needs to be updated and streamlined.

For example my DAW, Studio One Pro, is extremely easy to use and in fact I started using it without reading any documentation. As I got comfortable with it I started to dig deeper into it. BiaB should be that easy.

Don't get me wrong. Virtually all of my songs start in BiaB and as you probably know most all are MIDI. I get out of BiaB ASAP because it is much easier for me to do my MIDI and audio editing in Studio One Pro.

YMMV

partly agree with you Mario, but making a song in BIAB is not really any more complicated than when I first started. choose a key, tap in a time, enter the chords and choose a style. you then have a song. and at that point i move over to RB because it is easier and simpler to use. the 'problem' - if you can call it that - is the extra capability BIAB has introduced over the years because it seems people want a 'one box solution'.

'i want to do so and so' which is not obvious someone posts and Charlie or Jim Fogle posts a detailed description oh how to do it. (i'm impressed always by how much they know BIAB inside out and just what the program can do.) but it's usually quite complicated compared with doing the same thing in RB.

that's why i said BIAB is now so hard to get to grips with. there are no buttons i can think of that don't do something useful and the complexity is due to the addons users have requested.

you get out asap and go to studio 1. i go to RB. why create utility tracks in BIAB when you have as many as you want in RB where all tracks really are equal? but people wanted it.

giving people what they want is why BIAB is the way it is. so we're back at square one - responding to customer requirements!

+1 and spot on. My experience is similar:
a. Some difficulty in climbing the BiaB learning curve, yet it's power is self-evident
b. No problem in learning the intuitive and clean design of Studio One and is also powerful

Here is my concern. As a technocrat and one who casually follows innovation, it is likely that a company in this business space may "sense blood in the water" and produce a product that will directly and successfully compete with BiaB. I hope this doesn't happen as I have come to respect PG Music and its flagship product in a big way. However, the entry bar to enter this business space has recently been lowered in a major way. It is no longer required to retain a large department of coders and suffer with development times measured in years. I recently viewed a technical video that demonstrates how ChatGPT can actually write computer code that can exceed the quality produced by seasoned professional computer programmers. This is hugely significant.

Why? Reaper fits my needs for scripting to show how coding Biab/BBPlugin/RealBand/PowerTracks can be made better, heaven forbid if we try to do that without getting cancelled. Are these things I have shown using Reaper been implemented into or being implemented into Biab/BBPlugin to make things easier for users like you just like Studio One does ? YES.

Nothing wrong with Studio One except the is no information on it's scripting and won't play wma files otherwise I would be using it also to demonstrate.

That is my whole purpose of being here to make the PG products better, regardless of all the attacks. I list their short comings BUT come up with ideas and solutions that I go to a lot of trouble to work out and show.