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It's in the past because it's been kept in the past, taking on the establishment, the old guard is no easy task ! yet I do it and keep at it. What the hell have you got here, in this pic, REAPER !!!! Why do you have non jail windows, multipickers, multitracks editing ? why can you edit the wav sections nondestructively. The truth can hurt and it can hurt bad. If you are happy with the past use an old version of it. I see users with my own eyes knock suggestion only to the suggest this feature to another user once implemented, GET OUT OF HERE ! It you can't contribute DON'T BLOCK OTHERS THAT CAN ! DON'T BLOCK THINGS JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND ! There is stupid me compiling Lua code voice synthesizer on Mac for users !!!!!!! and what do you get, a knife in the back. Users don't mind using you when they need something but then won't hesitate with the knife. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28061&filename=BB24-Track-Sections-Non-Jail.png)
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I love to see the day when you guys leave this world and instantaneously see what the story is, have instant understanding of all that's said because you are actually alive for the first time and not dead anymore.
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jpettit,
Nice breakdown.
However I would prefer a simpler family hierarchy tree that ends in "Type"
(CAT-----INSTR----TYPE: List)
(Strings > Guitar > Acoustic: List )
and then use/apply separate filters that are not a part of the tree: feel, tempo(range), etc., but so that they "remember" (respect) prior selection. I believe it's called "nested" sorting. Thanks, it's just thinking out loud right now as another primary way to slice the database, so people see BIAB has thousands of session players. That hierarchy was created by a chat GTP using PGM's actual first level instrument names. PGM attempted to start to auto load the filters in 2024, but they only went about halfway, and their instrument hierarchy just use the old GM MIDI Hierarchy instead of the coding the true hierarchy lists something like what I have shown. At any rate It currently does not associate the instrument or genre of the current style. They should at least finish that code this year and put a lot more work into a true instrument hierarchy for 2025. As well as, for people who know what a rhythm sounds like, a way to "play it in" to help find the correct phrasing and feel similar to what Toontracks has been doing for a few years. Chat GTP suggest these terms for the hierarchy levels, but some may be too technical: Category: This is the broadest level of classification. Family: This is a more specific level of classification within a category. Type: This term can be used to further classify within a family. Subtype: This term is used for an even more specific level of classification within a type. Class: This term is often used in scientific classifications, especially in biology, and is more specific than subtype. Order: This is another term used in scientific classifications and is more specific than class. Group: This is the most specific term and can be used at various levels of a hierarchy. Then you need to further filter by Feel, BPM, Note duration and genre styles. It's important to note that PGM has done a fairly decent job of consistently using a background hierarchy just in the naming of their Real tracks. This work just needs to be pulled out into active hierarchical lists.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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I would love the day when you realize the world does not revolve around you. When you realize that not everyone has to bend to your personal desires and ideas. Old guard! there is no old guard here! No one is guarding anything. That is a tired old title you give anyone who does not agree with you! Personally, i am sick of the constant attacks on those don't agree with your views. You come in here and highjack other people's threads. A group of people were discussing a collective effort to help make things better as they see it! If you don't agree fine, but don't just jump in and take over withthe same crap you have posted on 40 other threads. No one highjacks yours! No, we let you go on and on and on and on and on about the same things. You want respect around here earn it! Offer good ideas then respect others right to disagree. Show the rest of us who are trying to help here in our way, that you are a respectful and decent person. Stop with the Narcissistic view that everyone is wrong but you, and we are all lesser. You sir are just one voice and are running the risk of losing any credibility you still have.
I have noticed that less and less people even respond to your post anymore! Ask yourself why?!?! The answer is clear! You treat others poorly and show no respect! Maybe it is you that needs to wake up!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Biab is stuck in the past, you don't have to be a genius to see that, it's a no brainer it says it all without me saying a word.
The more it's enabled to stay in the past the more it will stay there.
I could die here tomorrow and it won't change the truth, I could be long gone but the truth will remain.
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We know the old saying, Don’t shoot the messenger. But sometimes it really is the messenger, not the message, that is the cause of a problem. The last thing I want is another sub forum - we have too many now, and it makes no sense to me to create one just for one DAW. And yet things might indeed be better here overall if there was just one more.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Personally, i am sick of the constant attacks on those don't agree with your views. You come in here and highjack other people's threads. A group of people were discussing a collective effort to help make things better as they see it! If you don't agree fine, but don't just jump in and take over withthe same crap you have posted on 40 other threads. No one highjacks yours! No, we let you go on and on and on and on and on about the same things. Stop with the Narcissistic view that everyone is wrong but you, and we are all lesser. +1 Rob, he is really degrading the quality of this wonderful forum.
Last edited by Bass Thumper; 06/05/24 04:15 AM.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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We know the old saying, Don’t shoot the messenger. But sometimes it really is the messenger, not the message, that is the cause of a problem. The last thing I want is another sub forum - we have too many now, and it makes no sense to me to create one just for one DAW. And yet things might indeed be better here overall if there was just one more. +1
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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BT i agree, but one thing should be noted, MC is a strong contributor. I do think he has some great ideas. I just want him to understand that just because we all don't jump on his band wagon, we do not appreciate the solid idea.
What i personally do not like is the idea that because we see a different path to future we are standing in the way of progress. We all want progress, but we want it for what benefits everyone.
Most folks do not want to program to go in a different direction. Yes, there are some elements that are dated, but the bigger issue is the needed cleanup of redundant workflow, followed by some of the cool features added need a little TLC to make them more functional, lastly there are a list of bugs that need to be addressed. Once the program receives these "repairs" then we can talk about more modernization. I have seen that Peter wants progress, but progress can't stifle profitability. Good business must balance profits with progress. This is the reason you launched the White Paper project to encourage others to discuss these needed items. To have a productive discussion derailed by unproductive rhetoric is frustrating.
Invitation to MC. Look old friend, we all understand what you are saying here, we get it, Peter gets it, the PGM team gets it. Obviously if it is not happening as you think it should the reasonable thing to conclude is that it is not as easy as one might think. To conclude that no one is listening does not make sense. Everyone heard you. Maybe a deep modernization can happen at some point, but what is needed now is fixing many of the longtime issues and cleaning up the workflow. Jump in and help us, the white paper makes sense to many people, the issues are well documented. Peter sees these things too. Help us achieve these reasonable goals. Then maybe others will be more receptive to your more aggressive goals later on down the road. Your level of frustration is not good for you, and not good for your hopes and dreams here. I am just asking you to dial it back a bit and work with us as we go through this process.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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It's been one week since our White Paper was shared on this thread and because of a hijack, much of this time has been wasted with many of us frustrated.
It's possible that collectively, hundreds of person-hours have been spent reading, thinking and responding to the hijack.
Can we all ignore the hijack and return to the original purpose of this thread?
Regarding the paper:
What did we get wrong?
What did we get right?
What could be improved?
What did we omit?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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While we all love biab and look forward to its bug fixtures and future development, its good to see the Big Picture sometimes.
Life doesn't start and end with biab, it really shouldn't be the biggest priority in someone's life (unless you are a PG developer) it shouldn't become such an obsession so that a posters waking moments (and maybe dreaming moments too) and to the extent that a persons thought processes are totally fixated on the software.
Last edited by musiclover; 06/05/24 06:39 AM.
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Life doesn't start and end with biab, it really shouldn't be the biggest priority in someone's life (unless you are a PG developer) it shouldn't become such an obsession so that a posters waking moments (and maybe dreaming moments too) and to the extent that a persons thought processes are totally fixated on the software. +1 Sometimes... one's passion for something can lead to forgetting how the game is played: 15. Don't hijack someone else's thread topic with a different topic. For example, if the thread is about "Topic A," don't add a reply in the same thread about a different "Topic B." Instead, start your own thread for "Topic B."
Bruce Hook - Soprano, Alto and Tenor Saxes
BIAB 2023 UltraPak | Intel i7 | Mackie ProFX10v3 Audio Interface | 1TB SSD | Reaper DAW
| Akai EWI 5000 | M-Audio Oxygen Pro 49
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It's been one week since our White Paper was shared on this thread and because of a hijack, much of this time has been wasted with many of us frustrated.
It's possible that collectively, hundreds of person-hours have been spent reading, thinking and responding to the hijack.
Can we all ignore the hijack and return to the original purpose of this thread?
Regarding the paper:
What did we get wrong?
What did we get right?
What could be improved?
What did we omit? The White Paper did a good job of showing different user communities having potentially different purposes and requests for the tool. It could have gone into more details about certain weaknesses such as workflow which is hundreds of small things small things about consistency. It could have gone into more detail about why old and new ways to do the same thing is not good. BTW, having 5 different ways to get to the same code is a good thing. 5 different ways to get to 5 different versions of the same idea is a bad thing. It could have gone into more detail about modern software using panels instead of modal dialogs. By the way BIAB already has several examples of using Docked Panels and just needs to replace all its modal dialogs with that approach. BTW floating dialogs are a generation before panels. It could have gone into a little more detail about global and hierarchical aspects of the software such as the transport layer, the cursor, loop selections, and some very fundamental things found in any software that has to deal with editing things in a time frame. Modern software uses vector-based graphics or at a minimum has 2 to 3 scales of graphics for people who are on large 4K screens versus laptop, so the graphics is always crisp. It could have gone into more detail not just AI but about the pros and cons of a "Session Player" workflow concepts of which the competitors have 4 dynamic/smart ones and BIAB has 2900 live ones. It's two different approaches to trying to do the same thing. Rest assured PGM has noted the white paper. Look closely at the thread and you'll see a few of these ideas being brought up. I would ask the community to engage in that input. Embracing a Session Player Hierarchy of Session players/instrument Quicker ways to find your Session player
Last edited by jpettit; 06/05/24 11:47 AM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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The White Paper did a good job of showing different user communities having potentially different purposes and requests for the tool.
It could have gone into more details about certain weaknesses such as workflow which is 100 small things about consistency. Jeff (I think), Thanks for your good feedback, I've saved your comments for if/when we update it. I know there are other smart people on this forum. Anyone else have thoughts on the paper? --Steve
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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I wonder if this has ever happened before in history, where one person has come and told the truth to bring about change, been ganged up on, attacked by the angry mob and got rid of ?
Reaper, as the name says has just served a great purpose to bring about this exposure.
How will history now judge this ?
I would just like to see others put their life where their mouth is, being so sure of what they have been saying, being so sure of what they have done.
I won't be here anymore, so God, let's see how this plays out in the long run, what's been done here.
The end.
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BTW Bass Thumper, this is NOT and off topic.
It was posted in the wrong sub forum.
Maybe the moderator can move it for you.
It should be in the Wish List forum as it pertains to the future of BIAB.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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jpettit, Nice breakdown.
However I would prefer a simpler family hierarchy tree that ends in "Type"
(CAT-----INSTR----TYPE: List)
(Strings > Guitar > Acoustic: List ) It's important to note that PGM has done a fairly decent job of consistently using a background hierarchy just in the naming of their Real tracks. This work just needs to be pulled out into active hierarchical lists. I will split this off to a new thread entitle "Improving Search" that can be reference in the WP. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/s2nvb8bf/Searching2.jpg)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff,
fun drawing (in a good way). It's a very big subject that needs feedback from a lot of people. My take is, both Hierarchy and String searches are important and useful in their own ways. I would prefer a toggle switch in MTP Library or even something of a hybrid.
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What I am missing in BIAB is an improved search mechanism also from the "Rhythm/Groove" perspective.
Todays filters with feel/tempo/genre for styles and RT/RDs does not get me cloose to what I hear in my head and what I am looking for.
BIAB 2026, Studio Pro 8, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, ZOOM UAC-2, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, EZD3, SD3, EZBass, EZMix3)
Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
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What I am missing in BIAB is an improved search mechanism also from the "Rhythm/Groove" perspective.
Todays filters with feel/tempo/genre for styles and RT/RDs does not get me cloose to what I hear in my head and what I am looking for. Item#1 in Section 4 tries to address this very need but your description is better stated. I've captured your input for any update we do. Thanks for the feedback.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
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