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Good question.
I think you are going to get two to three camps here.
SAVE In File menu for all apps
1) I personally learn 3 decades ago that Ctr + S saves so I do not need to waste space with save button.
2) Others may have been hitting your save button for years.
OPEN In File menu for all apps
1) Many DAWs have a dedicated song browser with tabs. PGM has the Song Tab. 80% of the time I use the OS file browser to go the directories in my organization so no button for me.
2) Others have used your Song Browser.
So, I would vote for let the user decide what buttons are in the tool bar.
You can default you what you have but let others remove them. I have to disagree here with #1. I'm at the moment helping out in some beginners' courses for computers and newcomers will not be familiar with those shortcuts, so I think the items must be on the menu. Those of us who work with multiple different operating systems can find that useful, too. Whilst most applications have adopted the Microsoft or MS-like shortcuts, some have shortcut systems that differ (usually from historic incompatibility). I would certainly have: New New from template Open Open Recent... Save Save As... Import Export Close Quit Possibly, though these could be Exports: Print preview Print Open and saves would be BiaB-native formats. Import and Export for other formats, with a sub-menu and/or a dialog for the format. I don't disagree with the concept of letting the user decide, but I do think a conventional list is the right default. I don't know what degree of disruption user-configurability would cause to development, though I do know that it's already doable with at least some menus.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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I believe I predicted there will be at least three camps.  Sure, for the menu. Of the dozens of programs I use on a daily basis, none have a Save button except BB. Although popular in the 90s when GUIs started, we currently have no option other than to ignore.
Last edited by jpettit; 02/12/25 02:43 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff, sorry, but put me in the camp of wanting and using a Save button. Is that door number 1, 2, or 3?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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My camp! Where you can make all 4 "Save buttons" if you really - really want to  Also in my camp you would be able to save a triple key shortcut(s) of your choice as a quick access button.
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I believe I predicted there will be at least three camps. Sure, for the menu. Of the dozens of programs I use on a daily basis, none have a Save button except BB. Although popular in the 90s when GUIs started, we currently have no option other than to ignore. You did, though I believe it was for the menu, not for buttons. I was just stating my view. The other part is curious ... I too use dozens of applications and a great many of them do have a save button, though I just looked through several music-related applications to find that only one of those did, whilst most office tools had one.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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I believe I predicted there will be at least three camps. Sure, for the menu. Of the dozens of programs I use on a daily basis, none have a Save button except BB. Although popular in the 90s when GUIs started, we currently have no option other than to ignore. You did, though I believe it was for the menu, not for buttons. I was just stating my view. The other part is curious ... I too use dozens of applications and a great many of them do have a save button, though I just looked through several music-related applications to find that only one of those did, whilst most office tools had one. Yes, I understand, and I guess the open buttons and recent lists have been moved to the opening screens, which I do use in Studio One, Cakewalk, Adobe Suite, Office 365 apps. I can't think of a save button. To be honest I use a close with the dirty bit set so your flagged to make the choice to save on a shut down. Anyway a common solution for all inputs so far would be user configurable buttons with the BB classics as a theme and more minimal themes available and savable. I use a custom tool bar with only Muli Picker Library and Track View/Chord view toggle on it 80% of the time. I also add Audio Edit for envelops and Piano Roll buttons for Playable RTs.
Last edited by jpettit; 02/12/25 05:55 PM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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I agree that the New, Open, Save and Save-As buttons that are sometimes on the toolbar are mostly just wasted real estate, particularly when the icons are a 5-1/4 floppy or a hard drive with an arrow. These days, many young people have seen neither.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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all i ask...and i know its a challenge for any developer to put out a feature rich app like bb...is...please....make sure the bb new gui doesnt end up cluttered like some music apps ive tried recently.
for example i like reaps v2 because its not cluttered imho.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/13/25 05:02 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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The Freeze and Simple track buttons presently list individual legacy track and all tracks for selection but does not list utility tracks. Please add individual utility tracks to the selection lists. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=30307&filename=Clipboard01.jpg) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=30308&filename=Clipboard02.jpg)
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if the definition of the Multi picker Library is:
A "Library of sounds" to build a song with, then the tabs:
1- Styles
2- Real Tracks
3- Real Drums
4) MIDI Super Tracks
5) MIDI Tracks
6) MIDI Soloist
7) Melodist
8) User Tracks
9) Loops
10) MIDI Patches
meet that definition and make a strong browser to sounds.
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SUGGESTION 1: Chord Progression and Chord Variation are "Reference Tools" that would be fit in a horizontal panel associated with the Chord View.
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SUGGESTION 2: Lyrics tab is a Tool more associated with a tool to build dedicated Phrased based Lyrics track in the Track view, or a dedicated Note based Lyrics Track in the Piano Roll and Notation views.
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SUGGESTION 3: Titles tab is a Tool directly associated to the Style Tab workflow and would fit better as a button in the Styles tab.
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SUGGESTION 4: Songs tab should be an "Opening Panel" that brings you into a song like many creative apps on the market.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff, not arguing with the points you're making but I'm having trouble understanding how it applies to "Make Freeze & Simple Icons Work With Utility Tracks".
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Jim, I think, because you changed "sub" thread subject from main ( Specific suggestions - Toolbars and layout) to "Make Freeze & Simple Icons Work With Utility Tracks", it seems Jeff is replying to you. I think he is replying to main thread.
Jeff +1000 on suggestions on layout sorting.
Last edited by Rustyspoon#; 02/23/25 04:56 PM.
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We need dedicated Solo and Mute buttons at VST3 window so it does these without going to the mixer. This is a standard everywhere else.
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Jeff, not arguing with the points you're making but I'm having trouble understanding how it applies to "Make Freeze & Simple Icons Work With Utility Tracks". It has nothing to do about that post. It is part of the OP. All the other pinned request lists name specific views. This is the only pinned list that can cover other topics like the multi Library. The Post actually has four distinct suggestions in it.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff and RustySpoon#,
Thanks for both of your responses.
I changed the heading of my post from the thread's default title to reflect the subject of my improvement suggestion. That way I can look at my posts and from the titles know I'm not duplicating suggestions.
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Yes, I think editing the OP title and all further posts inherit the edit title, is a bug in the forum software. Ironically, I first saw it with Misha edited the title (F5) about a month ago.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Some confusions occur by using the quick-reply area rather then explicitly replying to a post by using the [Reply] or [Quote] buttons. The quick-reply inherits from the original post ... I sometimes think it would be better if the quick-reply area wasn't there.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Another idea for improve experience. I was thinking about this at the beginning of this effort and never got around to bringing it up. The Keyboard/Guitar view as a floating window, and buried in the mixer tabs (never used it), would seem more natural and more integrated into the process if it was a docked horizontal panel at the bottom of the screen.. I am seeing this in several other musical apps. This has at least four advantages: 1) More room for more keys and streamlines the usage. 2) Can be used as an MIDI input device with on screen chords recognition adding to workflow. 3) Can be used across many of the views as an educational/FYI view. 4) Eliminates the need for the 'piano per track view in the mixer' and enhances the floating keyboard to process input/recognition. I know you can float a window at the bottom, but this integrates it more with chord input/recognition and output/playback workflow. This does not take away the option to un-dock it. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=30349&filename=BIAB keyboard.jpg) (COMMENT: PGM has historically made an easier floating window instead of engineering a docked panel approach. A docked panel approach would greatly modernize the GUI, with relatively a small amount of effort.)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Although not a specific suggestion but I though this article by Kanaryi sounds would apply here. It shows ideas on what works and what doesn't work as it applies to GUIs. https://karanyisounds.com/crafting-...;mc_cid=d7c64b2f1f&mc_eid=44d89f9b4c
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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This is very valuable information, Mario. Critical design is one of the most important steps with user interface development.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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