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Can someone please explain the 'logic' behind 'stretch tuning'?
I recently purchased a Roland piano, and cannot use the upper 2 octaves because it is stretched tuned...
The individual notes in these octaves are out of tune with the ones below...
An 'E' sounds more like an 'F', and so on.... and if I play these notes within a solo, it sounds like I'm making mistakes...
This makes no sense to me - I hope someone can enlighten me here....
Thanks.
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For some people, stretch tuning sounds more natural. It rarely ever sounds like notes are out of place. I would guess that someone has mucked up the tuning way past typical stretch tuning. You really shouldn't notice it as wrong notes, just a different timbre to the instrument.
I'm guessing that you can reset this to a lesser amount. Do you have the manual for the Roland? If not, there are web resources for some Roland products that will allow you to download the manual. The HP 245 model allows you to turn the stretch tuning on and off, and I'm guessing there are some that allow you to vary the degree of 'stretch'.
-Scott
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This is my (very) basic understanding of the logic in laymen's terms-
Let's say you play a 'C' on piano an octave below middle C
Now if all the strings are perfectly in tune on that note, it would ring certain harmonics.
One of those harmonics is the C two octaves up. In a perfectly tuned piano (only possible theoretically) that C two octaves up would simpley re-inforce the harmonics of the lower C when you played them both; it wouldn't be a distinctive note but would quickly vanish into the harmonics. Not totally but significantly. Each note has many harmonics so the problem would compound.
Throw it out of tune just a hair and you can easily notice it.
If you throw it out of tune by making it flat it will be annoying. Throw it out of tune a little sharp and it fits much better.
That's the 'stretch' part (as I understand it). The higher you go up on the piano the more it is adjusted (sharp) to be distinguishable from the lower harmonics.
Hopefully someone else has more info.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
The individual notes in these octaves are out of tune with the ones below...
An 'E' sounds more like an 'F', and so on.... and if I play these notes within a solo, it sounds like I'm making mistakes...
This makes no sense to me - I hope someone can enlighten me here....
Thanks.
If the notes are THAT much sharper, I doubt if it is due to Stretch Tuning.
In the Stretch, the E 2 octaves above middle C would only be a beat or two sharper than the E directly above middle C. Certainly nowhere near an F.
Something else is wrong here, or possibly there is an internal setting that allows for custom stretches that has been somehow toggled WAY off the beaten path.
An easy way to put today's keyboards back onto the beaten path is the System Reset. The dreaded User Manual usually explains how to perform the Reset back to factory defaults.
--Mac
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Here is Roland's response to my question:
"Stretch Tuning" is the default tuning for most Roland digital piano and keyboard products. Roland applies this setting to our products because stretch tuning is the accepted tuning method used to tune acoustic pianos.
Some of our products have the option of adjusting the amount of stretch tuning or turning stretch tuning off. Other Roland products, including the FP-4, do not have those options. These options, or lack of options, are per the specifications of each individual product."
I can grasp the concept of making the upper notes SLIGHTLY different from the lower ones (harmonics and all) but it seems Roland has 'stretched' this concept to the point that the notes sound 'out of tune'.... Unfortunately I own the FP-4, and have to live with their lack of 'options'...
Thanks....
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Again:
I know of NO stretch tune that would turn an E into "almost an F".
Something else is wrong here, might even be a hardware fault in need of repair.
But it is not any sort of standard stretch tuning. Not with that large of a stretch.
It *might* be that the way they did the stretch is broken, though, would take a trip to the uthorized service center test bench to correct.
Whatever the reason, what you've described cannot be proper operation.
--Mac
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"Whatever the reason, what you've described cannot be proper operation."
I agree Mac... when I first noticed it after a few days at home with the new piano, I went to Guitar Center and Sam Ash, and played the FP4s that were on display, and it was exactly the same as mine.... so yeah - who ever at Roland designed this really screwed up.... and to not even put in an option to change it was ridiculous....
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A couple of Forum posts. So I am also thinking about a Roland FP4 and a Kawai ES6. A Roland FP4 seems really good, though I'm concerned about just one little aspect: I notice that it has an equal flat temperament but no equal stretched temperament as on the Kawais. I would have thought an equal stretched temperament was essential for a grand piano sound. Can anyone confirm if this is true and if it matters? You can access the FP4 owners manual at: http://www.roland.com/products/en/FP-4/But you're right, it doesn't seem to have stretch tuning. This isn't strictly necessary, but it's a nice feature. Acoustics use it, because they sound a little more balanced that way. Personally, I prefer the touch on the ES-6 anyway. You might also try out Kawai's other portable instruments, the MP-5 and MP-8. These are sold in music shops and require an external amp and speakers.
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On page 79 and 80 of the manual it lists types of tunings.
This is in addition to the tuning to 440.
They list the following adjustments:
1. Equal
2. Just Major
3. Just Minor
4. Kimberger
5. Mean Tone
6. Pythagorean
7. Werkmeister
If you can read the manual you can change these at will.
I've used roland products for years and never had a bad one.
Unless yours is broken it should work fine.
In order to get a good grand piano sound it is my understanding that you cannot have mechanical tuning, it won't replicate it, rather you need stretch tuning.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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dmrodes,
As I pointed out in the first response in this thread, and confirmed by others in the thread and from the Roland support staff, stretched tuning is an attempt to make the piano sound more natural. Your manual should tell you how to do this - John points out that in the FP-4 manual you have several different flavors of temperments and tunings to pick from.
It appears that the Roland support person didn't do their homework. It wouldn't be the first time a support jockey didn't know all of their products intimately.
But it does appear that you can choose from several different tuning settings; some of which probably sound quite wonky and why they are not used any longer for modern music. Some of those temperments are usable only in certain keys. Check to see what your FP-4 is set to - I would set it to Equal temperment. You probably will like that one.
-Scott
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I wish I had an equal temperment.
The best one today, in a Canuck football game the genius in the booth on hearing the whistle and realizing there is a clock problem says,
"The officials are going to commiserate and decide what to do about the clock".
English is indeed dying small cut by small cut.
But I have laughed of and on for hours.
"Gentlemen, shall we commiserate?
John Conley
Musica est vita
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