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I have seen statements like this 'all the real cool articulation and human phrasing ... has to be put in using a controller or manually' a number of times on these forums and, although I understand the concept in general terms, I don't quite get the specifics.
Does this refer to playing in a track from a controller OR is there a way to just add pitch bends etc. to a midi melody or solo track that has been generated by BiaB? If the latter, how does one do that? Does the midi out from BiaB get affected by the controller as it passes thru to the sound module? I guess I could just try it but I'm betting if this is possible there's plenty of setup required at the controller.
Any help appreciated.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Thinking about this further I can see IF it's possible at all I'd have to be recording the changed midi back to the solo track. I think that eliminates the possibility of using the Ketron since the output is audio. But even using the VSC DXi would be fine since I could change the sound source later.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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You can add pitch bends in the "Piano Roll" editor. Make sure to have the midi track on either the melody or soloist channel there. Once you have added the bends, be sure to hi-lite a note, then "select all" and re-channel the data and notes to either 4 for melody or 8 for soloist.
That way, your hard work will not be overwritten when you press the play button.
You can draw in the pitch bends manually via the pencil there. Usually, the bend will go from the center line up to the top, then across for a few ticks and back down to the center line. Looks sort of like a bridge when done correctly. If you leave the "down" line above or below the center line, the note will be sharp (above) or flat (below). You have to have a note present in order to do a bend.
Trial and error.
Try and find a midi with guitar bends as an example, before you edit your song. And don't forget to save your midi prior to making ANY edits. You don't want to overwrite a good part.
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You can add Pitch Bend, Modulation and a few other MIDI parameters to the MIDI tracks using the Controller dropdown in the Pianoroll view, drawing them in the bottom window.
You can also RECORD them from a keyboard controller overtop of existing MIDI tracks as well, in realtime. My preferred method.
Ketron SD2 responds to the standard MIDI Controller data for these things.
--Mac
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Quote:
You can also RECORD them from a keyboard controller overtop of existing MIDI tracks as well, in realtime. My preferred method.
Hi Mac. This is what I'm interested in. So how do I go about it? Say I have some midi on the melody track. Do I play it out the midi port connected to my controller and record it to the solo track with the midi in from my controller?
What about the 'send midi thru to midi out' setting? Should this be on or off?
Is there a section in the BiaB manual I should look for? I'm not sure of the terminology here.
Thanks.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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You will have to actually play the notes while using the modulation wheel on your keyboard at the same time. You can't add bends to notes that are already scored, unless you write them in via notation.
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Hi pwarren, I don’t use BiaB for recording as I use it as a scratch board and then bring the song into Sonar where I add all of my controllers and actual recordings. I know that in Sonar you can add any and all of the MIDI controller data via a midi controller over already recorded midi notes using the sound on sound command. I thought you could do the same thing in RealBand. I just tried it out and now I know you can. Click on the track that has your midi notes, click on the midi record button and move your keyboard controller knobs, sliders and buttons while the song is playing. RB will record your movements without erasing your notes, hence it is the same thing as Sonar’s sound on sound recording. You will end up with both the midi notes and CC/wheel data on the same track. You can use the piano roll view to edit any data on that track.
I see you have BiaB 2010.5 so I think you have RB also. I believe this is the only way to do this.
I hope this helps and good luck.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Quote:
...I thought you could do the same thing in RealBand. I just tried it out and now I know you can. Click on the track that has your midi notes, click on the midi record button and move your keyboard controller knobs, sliders and buttons while the song is playing. RB will record your movements without erasing your notes, hence it is the same thing as Sonar’s sound on sound recording. You will end up with both the midi notes and CC/wheel data on the same track. You can use the piano roll view to edit any data on that track.
I see you have BiaB 2010.5 so I think you have RB also. I believe this is the only way to do this.
I hope this helps and good luck.
Yep, that helps a lot. It wasn't important whether I use BiaB or RB, either will work for me.
One more question. Did you need to do anything special to set up your controller?
Thanks.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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No, you will need nothing special. All the information you need is in the documentation that came with your controller. You may need to assign different CC numbers to your sliders and knobs as need be. For example if you want to control expression, CC11, you will need to assign a slider to CC11. All will be explained in your docs. Note that the pitch bend and modulation wheels come preset. However you may be able to change them if you need to. I can on mine but I never do; I keep them as is. I can save assigned configurations as presets on my controller. I do have different saved presets for my different soft synths that I have. However to keep things simple (note I need things simple) I always keep pan (CC10) on one knob and CC11 on one slider in all of my presets.
I hope this helps
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks for the additional info MarioD. That helps a lot. My users manual that came with the PCR-M80 controller is quite cryptic. I'll have to really dig in to understand it. It is nice to know that the pitch bend and modulation is preset at the factory. That'll save me some work.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Thanks for the info Notes. The list of expression control codes is especially useful.
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Quote:
Thanks for the additional info MarioD. That helps a lot. My users manual that came with the PCR-M80 controller is quite cryptic. I'll have to really dig in to understand it. It is nice to know that the pitch bend and modulation is preset at the factory. That'll save me some work.
It looks like your PCR-M80 is very similar to my Maudio Evolution MK-449C midi controller. If you need any help feel free to PM me.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks for that Mario. I will have to try it out and see if my keyboard will also do the same here.
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A big thank you to MarioD. I tried out your instructions last night and you are indeed correct. There's no problem adding midi instructions to a track using a controller. That's a great ability to have. I don't play keys at all but I can twiddle knobs.
So a related and open question!
What midi instructions would be most effective to make guitar or brass tracks more realistic? Obviously a few bends, where appropriate, will help the guitars. What else do all you experts suggest?
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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I keep one MIDI pedal connected and dedicated to CC11 Expression. Expression #11 works like a fader on the mixer board and CC7 Vol then works like the Master Fader on that mixer board. If CC7 is set to 90, then CC11 can go no higher than the overall 90, even if it is sending 127.
Overdubbing CC11's works well on Pads like Strings or Organ patches, also can be used to great effect with horn sections to add critical dynamics.
A lot of the free downloadable MIDI files use only CC7 for everything. Bah. Strip 'em out, add the onetime CC7 and then use separate CC11's recorded to each track to wake up the dynamics of a good sequence.
Dynamics are one of our few tools.
Use them.
--Mac
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Quote:
I keep one MIDI pedal connected and dedicated to CC11 Expression. Expression #11 works like a fader on the mixer board and CC7 Vol then works like the Master Fader on that mixer board. If CC7 is set to 90, then CC11 can go no higher than the overall 90, even if it is sending 127.
Thanks Mac. I assume the expression would imitate the swell and fade of a guitar or horn etc. Sounds like that would be very useful.
To everyone, any other midi control codes you use?
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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As has been already mentioned volume/CC7, expression/CC11 and pan/CC10 are standard. Also standard on most synths, both hard and soft, are reverb/CC91, chorus/CC93, breath/CC2 and sustain/CC64. They’re may be others as I’m not at my music computer and my memory isn’t what is used to be!
Many other CC numbers will control whatever your synth says it controls. Your synth(s) will have a midi implementation chart with it. That will tell you what CC number controls what effect. For instance my faders 1-7 are set at CC12 thru CC18. On my B4II synth they control the Native Instruments Hammond draw bars thus creating different organ sounds while on my Garritan Jazz and Big Band things like Vibrato, aftertouch, horn key clicks, sax tongue growl etc. So you see the same CC numbers control different things depending on what synths you are using.
The bottom line is that you have to know what CC numbers control on your synth then assign those numbers to your controller. It’s really not a complicated as it sounds. Your manuals are your friends.
I hope this helps.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Quote:
As has been already mentioned volume/CC7, expression/CC11 and pan/CC10 are standard. Also standard on most synths, both hard and soft, are reverb/CC91, chorus/CC93, breath/CC2 and sustain/CC64. They’re may be others as I’m not at my music computer and my memory isn’t what is used to be!
I'm starting to get the picture a bit MarioD. The standard codes are implemented on all synths. Others are specific. Somehow I thought all defined codes were universal in the GM spec and that NRPN codes were synth specific.
So, good to know BEFORE I stick a bunch of control codes into a track and then change synth. My intent was to add some bends etc. to a guitar track while playing through the Ketron (to hear it) and then change to the sfz VST to use the much better sound fonts. Now I better check what sfz (and the soundfonts) support before jumping in.
Quote:
Your synth(s) will have a midi implementation chart with it.
Right. Definately a must do. Unfortunately most free soundfonts don't detail what samples are available and I don't yet fully understand the relationship between sfz and the soundfonts. I'll have to just experiment in this area.
Quote:
The bottom line is that you have to know what CC numbers control on your synth then assign those numbers to your controller. It’s really not a complicated as it sounds. Your manuals are your friends.
The way the PCR M-80 manual is written I'm not so sure it's anyones friend. I have to read it with google open to find definitions of every second word. lol
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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Breath Controller CC is not supported by many synths, check the documentation for your particular synth before attempting that one.
--Mac
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