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on my yamaha PSR-620 keyboard there is a church type organ called 16 + 2.Ive tried to find out (even from yamaha)what kind of organ this is but no luck.So can anyone here help me on this Cheers Frankie 
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I assume that the 16 is referring to a 16 foot stop, or contabass probably flute.
The 2 is a 2 foot long pipe, for a flute sound. If you listen to the patch you should be hearing a high pitch sound and a low bass sound. I'd assume with the 2 it's a set of flute stops, sometimes called flute celeste on some ograns, stopped diapason, or flute bordon.
It's possible it's a string stop but I don't think that's likely.
Playing any organ properly without a large room is impossible without a pedal and some big time sustain. The notes should go out and die in a taper, like a good horn player playing whole notes, like long carrots, not bricks, or as one of my teachers says bullets not bricks on 1/4 notes.
John Conley
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Unless you are doing jazz b3 or some other thing. I was talking above about church organs.
I was once organist for 8 different organizations. I'm down to 2 now, and show up when I can.
John Conley
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thanks for the reply John Christmas card on the way.Its a church/chapel sound and is perfect for a song Im writing.I looked at the organs on biab but there was nothing like it and not being a very good keyboard player it now looks as if I might have to get someone in.Cheers Frankie
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just played it and it does have that high pitched and low bass sound.Frankie
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"16 + 2" is likely the term used for a common jazz b3 tonewheel organ setting. 800000008 Which is the 16' rank at full along with the 2' rank at full, ala Jimmy Smith's opening registration in his famous "Mack the Knife" rendition. In this youtube, taken from a tv show back in the day, Jimmy is "kind of" using the 16+2 on the noodling, adding more of the upper harmonic drawbars to the mix to get that "chewing" kind of needly sound. 800008888 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yfkX8AIU5A Great for the octaves-with-notes-in-between onehand "noodling" as we call it. It is sometimes used along with a bit of the 4' as well, to taste. Of course, the famous Hammond Chorus provided by the scanner circuit, makes for a dramatic and animated sound. Leslie on full stop when doing this. I doubt it has anything to do with pipe organ registrations at all. --Mac
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Well my organ downtown in the 'loft' has a 16/2 setting says Flute Celeste, and all the numbers correspond to pipe organ settings, but I have a cousin with a Phd organ major might clarify for me, if I can find her, she travels...
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From a list of stops of one famous organ:
# 4 Flute ranks, 16'-2', 16'-2', 8', 8'
Reuter Opus #822
Now if you can't tell a B3 and a Pipe Organ apart, yer deafer than John.
Anyway, he says it sounds like a church organ, in these parts there were Hammond organs in churches, but I never saw a B3.
The loft Organ I used to play every Christmas before they cancelled the thing had a full set of pedals and an octave and a half keyboard at the bottom to a set of chimes with the longest being 8 feet. They sat beside the organ, and I played them a few times and everyone got very excited. The organ broke and I took in a keyboard and the wife had the flute and we played for a memorial service for the Head Masonic Canuck and I played the chimes on the keyboard and everyone was sure I had played
that big organ. Hilarious.
John Conley
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Mac,Its definately a church/chapel organ sound eg "Precious Lord" by Elvis Presley take a listen.Cheers Frankie
AMD Athlon 7550 dual core
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Fender semi accoustic guitar
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Quote:
Now if you can't tell a B3 and a Pipe Organ apart, yer deafer than John.
In 1937, Laurens Hammond was taken to court by the US Federal Trade Commission. brought about by various members of the pipe organ mfrs and community, and an investigation, complete with federal judge, was launched into whether or not he would be allowed to continue to call his invention an "organ."
This investigation went on for about a year before Laurens Hammond proposed that a blind test between his instrument and a real pipe organ be used to solve the problem.
A live comparison with the E.M. Skinner pipe organ at Chicago's Rockefeller Memorial Chapel was allowed, with a panel of judges that included leading well known pipe organists. conductors and music authorities, some PhDs were in that bunch, John.
Hammond put one of his electric organs inside the same chapel, powered by several of his own Tone Cabinets - no Leslie speaker, Laurens did not like the Leslie speaker, believe it or not.
Long story short, the distinguished panel of musicologists were unable to identify the Hammond organ over the Skinner pipe organ. Matter of fact, the results were all over the place.
The "experts" could not tell the Hammond from the Pipe Organ.
Hammond won the right to call the instrument an organ, However, it was also stipulated at the same time tht he could not claim "an infinite number of tones" in advertising, as only 253 million combinations are actually possible.
1937 The model E, designed to be used in churches, is introduced. It is the first Hammond with a full 32-note pedalboard, built according to American Guild of Organists.
Of course, pride and prejudice still live in the hearts of many, facts have nothing to do with it...
--Mac
sources:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/HISTORY+OF+THE+HAMMOND.-a0200786721
http://chsmedia.org/media/fa/fa/M-H/HamOrg-inv.htm
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Quote:
Mac,Its definately a church/chapel organ sound eg "Precious Lord" by Elvis Presley take a listen.Cheers Frankie
Cool.
As John has pointed out, there is also a pipe registration of that name.
It is quite likely that the B3 world adopted the same terminology for those two drawbars pulled.
The brown 16' and the White 2' drawbars are both sinewaves and thus Flutes in pipe organese.
--Mac
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The manual for the PSR in question states Church ORGAN 16' 2'
Every Pipe Organ, going back centuries, uses this as a description for the pipes of those lengths.
The midi numbers say 33 If I remember, (I just glanced at it). I need not look at the stops on the Grand organs of the world.
E. Power Biggs, the Englishman responsible for the revival of classical organ building in the USA, championed organs of the type in use when the pieces were written, but no doubt in some minds Bach's Four Great Toccatas & Fugues were composed first by a resident of some colony and played best on a 'Hammond' Organ, for it sounds the same as the organ in the Basillica Notre Dame, or the one in Notre Dame de Paris, that grand organ with some 7000 pipes is a mere facade of the one's build by Hammond Organ. Zut Alors.
I do have some great Bach done on period organs, but it's odd, there's not an American organ amongst them.
I'm sure when Yamaha says "DrawBar Organ" in the earlier positions, it is due to the fact that they cannot call it a B3. I guess some enterprising soul should buy up Hammonds and install them throughout France and Germany, for if they sound the same, those folks could pretend those pipes work and save a bundle in refurbishment costs.
Now to dig out Mr. E Power Biggs and get the wife off the opera CD's for a few hours.
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Frankie, I thought I posted something here, but it doesn't seem to have shown up. I thought the PSR-620 was equipped with Digital Drawbars, but it doesn't have them. I also was looking on ebay for the UK, and I found this: http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-i3-/150526764445?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item230c18259dThis is the original Korg i3, or Interactive Arranger, the granddaddy of my PA80 and PA800 arranger keyboards. If you can get this, this will be leaps and bounds above your PSR-620. The sounds and backing tracks were really, really good for it's day. In fact, this keyboard really took the concept of 'Arranger' keyboards upscale, to the level of almost pro, and a lot of pros did do composing on them. If you can afford it, or are near the area, I would take a considerable look at getting this. If you have some funds laying around and want to invest in a better keyboard, you might look at the Korg PA50. This is the slightly smaller brother to the Korg PA80, and does not have digital drawbars, but is a great keyboard. http://cgi.ebay.com/Korg-PA50SD-Professi...=item3f05730f8aAll the songs on this page, down to where it says PA800, were created on the PA80, which has the exact same sound set as the PA50, except the drawbars. http://www.catsmeowcafe.com/musicwork.htmlPersonally, I would just about kill to get this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-PA2XPRO-KEYBOAR...=item3cb31b688aOh, by the way, can you tell I like Korg?  http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-PA1X-Workstatio...=item255f64a0a8The forerunner to the PA800, and smaller version of the PA1X-Pro. A great keyboard, and a good price, since it was over $2,000US. I had this as my first keyboard http://cgi.ebay.com/Korg-ix300-Interacti...=item3f0583c68eThe iX300 was the step up from the i3, used the same sounds as the M1 keyboard and was a great sounding keyboard. Anyway, I'll stop bombarding you with new keyboards. However, I do want to say that any of those keyboards will be a step up from your PSR-620 as far as sound goes, and they're all good keyboards. The PSR-620 was a top keyboard in it's day, but as you can see, for not a whole lot of money, you can move upstream some. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Does it use 720k diskettes? Mine is state of the ark an has that function. Works well, but it's such a pain to do. Mp3 player replaced it.
John Conley
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gary Im not a keyboard player and only bought the keyboard about 10 years ago for its accompianment.i have held a few chords to give background to my songs but I was hoping this organ would have been in biab but it wasnt.
hehehe! Its great to see 2 "monsters of rock" Mac & John locking horns on this I never thought a small organ would bring about such a debate.Frankie
AMD Athlon 7550 dual core
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I'm no rocker. I've played organs for a long time, but prefer keyboards. I did once make a bit of a trip to Montreal to hear my cousin play a huge pipe organ, and spent the weekend there and during Saturday sat beside her while she finished her preparations. She had a priest who played Bach do some pieces and we stood in the nave and listened. It was amazing to see 2 coffins in the place, the bodies in coffins hoisted about 30 feet in the air and a big mirror was over the face, flowers cascading upwards towards the corpses. Someone played that organ almost all day, the families of the deceased came and went, and there were masses at 9 12 3 6 and 9 Every Day. Heck I lived in many small parishes in Quebec and the catholic churches had Mass at 9 and 12 every day in the late '60's and early '70's and .
Like a lot of subjects I didn't take, it's the books. For example I never took philosophy, but I have all the major texts, and a bookshelf full of what I thought mattered, and am prepared to discuss existentialism in literature from the perspective of Albert Camus, in French if you wish. I'm sure I can hold my own with most 3 year Philosophy majors. I cannot however hold my own with my 36 year old son who should have his Phd in a few months, I learned that he had honed his skills to a fine edge, and he can read and understand a 300 page textbook in a few hours. The key is understand, they he start pulling out quotes. The best I can do is read the book in a day and I need to fish for things, I remember them but not verbatim. Oh well.
I have some books here on the major organs of the world, one with a description of stops, and they are now useless because you can get as good or better on the net.
My wife and I are going to London and Paris in the spring, and there are 3 organs I'd like to hear. I have but 3 weeks. Although 3 members of my family were wounded in the 2 World Wars, I've never been to the battlefields, and that's on the agenda. And the Musee D'Orsay, for the impressionists. I insist on Aix-en Provence, (its an art thing).
You won't get much rock from John. Bach, Mozart, Strauss, Verdi, Elgar.....and many others fill my day
John Conley
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I'm more of a Jazzer who was raised and educated with the Classical background.
The Rock & R&B experience more or less just happened.
There were these paying gigs...
Then came an era of studio work in which I got to excercise every genre and had to quickly learn to cover a few others as well.
Oh, the sheer larceny of it all.
--Mac
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"'m no rocker" Yeah I knew that John it was tongue in cheek.. also it sounded better than Monsters of pipe/jazz organ playing.Frankie 
AMD Athlon 7550 dual core
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Frankie, I'm in London (the other one across the pond) for Easter. Westminster Abby for Easter Sunday? On the Monday we are taking the train to Glasgow and then the adventure of renting a car and driving to Islay. This music has a permanent place on my piano, if I start to play it the wife unpacks the flute and I have to try and figure out someway to stay off the melody. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-_DA1c1EhQ&feature=relatedNote in the open position you can see the 2' pipes.....LOL.
John Conley
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and did those feet, in ancient times, .....G O A L.....
LOL
John Conley
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Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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