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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5 |
I'm a newbie to BiaB and I've got all the styles (the UltraPak.) I purchased BiaB so that I don't have to write a drum, bass, keyboard and fill track in Cubase or RealBand every time I want to practice a cover tune. But looking through several thousand styles to find the right one isn't exactly a thrill either. Perhaps an example would help show my problem. This is a tune by Tinsley Ellis, and I want to practice the lead guitar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrDnY53s0xsSo I figure it's Even 8's, and the tempo is 50. It's blues rock. What now? There are no relevant styles that go down near tempo 50, and even if I pick styles with a tempo of 65, I can't find anything that's even close to this. I assume I'll have to use tempo 100 to get something usable. If someone could tell me which style to use (drums, bass, rhythm guitar and perhaps a Hammond) that would be nice, but then I'd be stuck on the next tune that's a little off the beaten path. What I'm more interested in is the process that you BiaB experts would go through to find the right style. How do you narrow it down from 2000 styles? Patience folks, I'm peddling fast as I can! I've been through most of the manual, but the manual doesn't tell you how to figure out something like this.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
Open the styles list. Find the one near the top, Blues.
Some there go down to 60. Even the 80's will usually go down to 70 or 65....
There are example files to go with each style, listen to them. Pick the ones that suit your bpm and genre....
No one said with that many styles there were a lot of short cuts. Slow country works ok for blues as does slow rock..
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 583
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 583 |
Not sure if this fits here; but, the Yamaha arranger keyboards have a feature (can't think of the name) where sample styles and registrations are preset ready to call-up based on tunes that most players know. They use cryptic names, such as "Dark Moon" for "Blue Moon". Maybe BIAB could provide something like that, that would assist in finding the appropriate style for a tune. Of course, that would not help those of us who approach tunes in non-standard ways. Sometimes, I'll swing a waltz tune, or put a bossa to a song most often played as a ballad.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,161
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Joined: Jul 2000
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The 2011 Program provides a Filter Function in the Style Picker. If you enter, Even 8ths, Swing,Tempo 50 then you get a small list mostly from Style Disk 5, but only one Style with RealTracks - BLZMNH
_BLZ_MNH.STY. Laid Back Blues (65 RS)
All RealTracks. Quartet.
RD: NASHVILLE128^08-SNARE,RIDE :
RT564: Bass, Electric, Blues Monday Sw 065, Dow Tomlin
RT565: Guitar, Electric, Rhythm Blues Monday Sw 065, Jack Pearson
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5 |
Thanks for the info folks. J.Larry - I have a Yamaha keyboard with style-picker features but the selections (though pretty good styles and instruments) are pretty limited, and I'm not going to be finding much by way of blues.
LynB, this is exactly what I'm looking for. I hope you're joking about 2011! I just bought BB a few weeks ago and it's 2010.5 - I hope it's not obsolete already. This kind of search function is exactly what I need, but the Style Picker doesn't seem to offer it. At the bottom right of the Style Picker you can do some filtering, but it's based on a) the prototype, b) a particular style disc, or c) MIDI, Real or both. That certainly does help narrow it down.
Hmmm... you know using the Song Picker rather than the Style Picker comes very close - all clickable columns let you sort by Feel or Tempo, and the genre has it's own column as well... that helps.
Thanks again for the prompt replies... Joe
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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Joined: Sep 2003
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There is a 30 day return policy on software at pg music. Contact them, I bet you get an upgrade if it's less than 4 weeks ago.
$20.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5 |
Thanks John: I've got to say, PGMusic is one of the best and friendliest companies I've had the pleasure of doing business with. I upgraded from the regular BB to UltraPak a month ago, and received the disc (half-way across Canada) within 22 hours, even though my original purchase was a bit over a month old. No problems.
I just contacted PGMusic as per your suggestion, and I'm being sent a download link for upgrade to 2011, even though my Nov 1 purchase is a bit over a month old.
You know, it doesn't get much friendlier or cooperative than that. Great program too.
Thanks again.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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You said a few weeks. I guess living so close to Winterpeg I can understand you think winter is a few weeks. That said we're the ones with 50 cm of snow today, schools closed, and more on the way.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,722
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,722 |
Joemac,
Welcome to the forum and thanks for the heads up on this great blues tune. I liked it so much I will be doing an arrangement myself with a few days.
With this said all I can add to the good advise above is that after you have selected the styles under blues, set them to the right tempo, and add the chords is to simply "listen" to each style until you find the one that will fit whatever tune you are arranging. Finding an exact match may happen but it is more likely that it won't as BIAB IMHO was never entended to sound exactly like any give recorded work. But I have found over the years that from time to time many of these styles come pretty darn close.
Later,
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5 |
> You said a few weeks.
John, at my age time goes by at warp speed! Two weeks probably means a month. I watched Global News this evening and saw what happened in London - you folks really got nailed. As did most of my family back in Nova Scotia... but at least they don't have to shovel rain and wind, though they'll need bulldozers to clear the trees away! As for the Winterpeg... yeah, it's about 30km east. But I spent much of my career in the Arctic so Winnipeg's easy!
Getting off topic here!
Thanks for the comments Danny. Tinsley Ellis is a great player, sort of in a similar blues rock genre to Joe Bonamassa, Walter Trout and Tab Benoit. That cut is from his album Hell or High Water - 2002.
What I was really looking for from BB was that solid drum track, but at a tempo of 50. There are variants of the FOLKYP style that I use on Hiatt's (and Buddy Guy's) Feels Like Rain that will probably do fine. I'll just replace the pedal steel with a Hammond when I move it to RealTracks. I'm a lifetime keyboard player now playing guitar, so I can put everything else in, but I'm terrible at drum tracks - that's kind of why I purchased BB. Now with 2011 it looks like it should be a bit easier finding what I need.
Thank everyone.
Joe
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 14 |
Way back when I kinda think PG Music had a book out or it might have been Roland and their arranger series stuff that had a listing of styles and song types that fit. I think it would be a great time ,with all the many diverse styles at our disposal, to put one out.Although I feel like a kid in a candy store it can slow down the process. Bottom line I hope to use everyone and enjoy the vast selection this program provides. Stan
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 618
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 618 |
You could try -Blz128.sty. I find this works well at 50. I kill everything but the Drums, Bass and Piano to start.
If you need to edit the drums, switch to MIDI and load it into RB or PTPA.
Slow blues with simple straight drums is what I look for a lot.
And thanks for the Tinsley Ellis link. Great stuff.
Wayne,
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Here's how I find an appropriate Style to go with a BiaB song:
*Inside the Stylepicker, at the bottom, is a feature, "Play on Doubleclick".
1) First, layout the chords for your song.
2) Check the LOOP box to the right of the songtitle window to True. This will force the song to start over and over again from the beginning when it hits the End.
3) Hit Play. Doesn't matter at this point what the Style file invoked is, just get it playing.
4) Now open the Stylepicker Window. You can use the Search feature, searching for something relevant, like "blue" or perhaps use the filters as well to search for Tempo, or *something* relevant to what you are after.
5) OR -- you can just peruse the ALL list with an eye for any style you think kay work.
6) When you find a filename you want to check out, simply doubleclick on it.
BiaB will change styles and you will hear the song playing back using that style.
Of course, if the style involves Realtracks, there will be a certain short amount of silence time as the Realtracks are generated, then the song will play using that style.
**I open an example of Notepad and keep it minimized in the taskbar. As I audition the styles in the above fashion, I take the time to open that Notepad file and quickly jot down the stylenames of those styles that seem to work with my song. I hardly ever stop with the first one that "works" - I might find several or more that could be used with my song.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,722
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Mac,
Very good suggestion and directions, you might want to post this on the "Tips Forum" as I am sure the topic will be raised again.
Later,
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Well, Danny, I'm afraid that the harsh reality of it is that even if posted in bold and all caps, experience has shown that there will still be many who will come here and ask the same question again and again.
That's why I keep a wordfile handy that has all this stuff typed out from the first time I answered someone, from there on in its copy 'n paste time...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
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Thanks for the advice Mac. Your method offers a pretty fast way to check out different styles.
> That's why I keep a wordfile handy that has all this
> stuff typed out from the first time I answered someone,
> from there on in its copy 'n paste time...
Sounds like a good plan. I've been involved with listservs, majordomos and discussion groups since the early 80's, and no one has yet devised a better way than that. Unfortunately, it keeps the experts like you pretty busy. It would be perhaps unreasonable to expect folks (particularly those new to this site and new to BB) to search back through literally thousands of posts, and also a mighty chore to linearly go through thousands of styles and/or songs to find what they're looking for. The FAQS are there, but looking at the FAQ page with my original question in mind, I certainly didn't find an answer to my original question. Nor did I find one in the first several pages of Tips.
The fact is, an app as comprehensive as BB needs a good filter function, a good search function, and a good sort function (including primary and secondary indexes.) Without them, it's just too big a task, because BB itself is so huge. Fortunately, with 2011 BB now has at least a filter function via the Style Picker, and a sort function (single index) via the Song Picker - by clicking on a heading. It's getting there!
But as you implied Mac, you could put all the functions imaginable in Caps, Bold and flashing, and people would still ask the same questions over and over. C'est la via!
But I certainly got what I came here for - people who know what they're talking about offering good advice on how to, if not completely solve my problem, than approach the problem in a logical way.
Joe
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259 |
I understand where Mac is coming from. I'm one of the "guilty" that he alludes to. I totally agree with you, Joe. BIAB is growing like a behemoth. I'm just a rookie on this stuff, too. Maybe it's time for a knowledge database with a good search engine?
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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