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Technology and socio-economic change affects every type of work, not just music. We can fear the handwriting on the wall, or we can proactively get positioned to succeed in the new reality.
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Being a musician is not what I do, it's what I AM.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
I support the local Jr College music program. The dean once told the students that you go into a music career "..if it is the only thing you can do". I took that comment in the positive spirit that it was intended.  But I do believe you expressed the same sentiment better. 
I think so.
I started as a musician, and got almost famous, warming up in concert for the major stars of the day, with a big record contract offered to us (negotiations failed when our lawyers wanted us to make some money from the deal). Then I got bummed and tried to quit music.
I had a short stint as a telephone repairman and another as a Cable TV Field Engineer, both while playing music on the weekends. It didn't work out with me.
I was capable of doing the jobs, better than many, not as good as the best, but somewhere in the upper middle. But I found myself simply enduring the week and waiting for the weekend. I lived for the weekends when I was on stage and playing music.
I can't not do music.
Being a musician is not an easy life. You always have to be looking for new work, you have to try to be a businessman/woman (which is not always easy for artist types), you have to learn to read the audience and play for them, you have no sick leave and actually have to play when you are sick, you get no paid vacations, you have to pay self-employment tax unless you are in certain orchestras, and you have to strive to be better than your competition or else you will not have any work.
But this pretty much describes any person who is self-employed, doesn't it?
On the other hand, I get to eat, breathe, and live a life doing music and nothing else but music. I'm happy and well adjusted. I'm doing better than the abandoned corporate workers who had the rug pulled out from under them when their jobs were outsourced. The big corporation doesn't care about it's workers, it only cares about this quarter's bottom line.
I make all my own decisions, if the decision is good, I profit, if the decision is bad, hopefully not too much damage is done and hopefully I learn from it. It's not like I have a job and I don't even consider it a job. When I'm looking for work, I'm foraging, when I'm schlepping equipment I'm exercising, and when I'm performing I'm playing (and I mean playing).
As I said, it's not what I do, it's what I am.
I once watched a documentary about the great violinist Nadja Salerno-Sonnenberg and she advised people if they can and want to do anything else, they should do it. But if they absolutely have to be a musician, then they should be a musician.
It's a happy life. Sure it has it's challenges, but what kind of a life doesn't? But I get to make a life doing music and nothing but music. Between performing and this little Band-in-a-Box aftermarket sideline I stumbled into, I'm doing OK. Or as they say, "could be better .. could be worse".
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Last edited by Notes Norton; 12/11/10 09:41 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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It's always been this way. Seriously. Read Beethoven's biography.
I know several folks here in Denver and Colorado Springs that are absolutely proving all of the 'drying up' comments wrong.
Different skills for different times. The world is your stage now with the Internet / YouTube / Facebook / Twitter / Reverbnation. If you know how to work that and have real talent, you can be successful.
Check out Tyler Ward Music on YouTube.
This kid was one of the worship leaders at our church just 6 months ago. He has absolutely gone viral on the internet and not because there's some amateur video of him laughing with milk coming out of his nose. He's got real talent as a musician, producer, videographer, and social network leader. His fan base is truly global. Hundreds of thousands of subscribers to his YouTube channel. Featured in Entertainment Magazine as a phenom to watch, etc. Playing tonight at the Hard Rock Cafe in Denver. Multiple record companies courting him, etc.
One of Tyler Ward's lead guitarists and another former worship leader at our little 250 person church, Jesse Michael Howard - super talented electric guitar player - landed lead guitarist gig with Big Kenny of Big & Rich.
And oh yeah, what Notes says in all of his posts in this thread "Ditto".
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Technology and socio-economic change affects every type of work, not just music. We can fear the handwriting on the wall, or we can proactively get positioned to succeed in the new reality.
Hold yer cards, we have a winner.
--Mac
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....snip....
It's a happy life. Sure it has it's challenges, but what kind of a life doesn't? But I get to make a life doing music and nothing but music. Between performing and this little Band-in-a-Box aftermarket sideline I stumbled into, I'm doing OK. Or as they say, "could be better .. could be worse".
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob, you left out one very important thing. That would be that you have helped a lot of folks with your BIAB related stuff and brought a lot of enjoyment to your audiences. Those are worth something, too, my friend.
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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The key here Notes is what I mentioned earlier. You married the singer. Imagine her as a stay at home mom with you the sole support for the family and you would not be a musician. Remember the old joke what's the difference between a musician and a pepperoni pizza? The pizza can feed a family of four.
Here's a little exercise for anyone reading this thread to try. Pick any site that hosts musicians. Listen to some tracks, bookmark some good ones. When you've tired of that site look at the right hand side of their page (usually) and see a list of related links. Pick one of those and do it again. Listen to some tracks. I did that about two years ago, just curious "what was out there". What's out there is an incredible, near infinite number of very professional sites hosting hundreds of really good, really well produced original songs each.
You can't do this for just 30 minutes or so. Oh no, you've got to really give this a chance, grab a couple of beers, make yourself comfortable in front of your computer and give it a good 3 hours or so. I did that and it was un...frickin...believable. At first I would find a great looking site, excellent graphics, excellent layout, all the bands organized in logical categories and I listened to maybe 6 or 7 tracks. Almost all of them were really good. I would then hit a link and do it again. That was the first hour and I had bookmarked a few sites that were so good I wanted to go back and visit them again later but for for now I was just trying to find as many new ones as I could. The second hour I was shortening up the time. Maybe one minute looking at the layout of the site, another minute listening to 2 or 3 tunes, no bookmark, too many, got to keep going, need to see just how many really good ones there are. For the third hour it was 15 seconds per site, 30 seconds listening to one tune, hit a link, move on. The last 10 minutes or so I felt like I was looking at one of those amazing Hubble pictures of the Milky Way in super high definition and wondering how long would it take to count all the stars.
I'm not joking here and I'm not exaggerating. If anybody doubts this, do it yourself but make it three hours minimum.
The internet is vast. Music hosting sites are one of the main categories. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of them is in the millions. There's not enough time in one lifetime to hit all the links on all those music hosting websites to listen to all the bands. No way. And remember my point here is not just the quantity, it's the quality. I heard some really good stuff. Great vocals, great writing, great playing, great production values. Every genre.
Here in LA the median income to just rent the average apartment and live decently is 50K a year. $1,000 a week. If someone is seriously trying to make that much playing or producing music they need to perform this little exercise and ponder the question can you really do this?
Bob
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It's always been this way. Seriously. Read Beethoven's biography.
I know several folks here in Denver and Colorado Springs that are absolutely proving all of the 'drying up' comments wrong.
Different skills for different times. The world is your stage now with the Internet / YouTube / Facebook / Twitter / Reverbnation. If you know how to work that and have real talent, you can be successful.
Of course it's possible Scott. The question is how likely is it no matter how good you are at working these things. The other question is who determines, before you go down that path, the definition of "real talent"? How many of Beethoven's peers who were equally talented but never caught that break died broke and miserable? If you have a teenage child who's preparing for college and they happen to really like music and are talented (but does it meet the definition of "real talent"), would you truly encourage them to spend $20,000 per year for a four year music degree at a big university rather than engineering, business and finance, health care, environmental geology, whatever? Pursuing their passion as a sideline while they're getting a real degree sure, but as a major? Was Tyler strictly a musician only or was he doing something real while trying to make it? Good for him by the way, he is good and it's a great story.
Stories like that are what kept me going for many years too.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Technology and socio-economic change affects every type of work, not just music. We can fear the handwriting on the wall, or we can proactively get positioned to succeed in the new reality.
In other words, assume the position!
- Bud
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The key here Notes is what I mentioned earlier. You married the singer. Imagine her as a stay at home mom with you the sole support for the family and you would not be a musician.
What's different between that and any other Ma and Pa business? I used to eat at an Italian Restaurant, Papa was the chef, Mama was the hostess, ran the register, and waited tables, and the kids waited and bussed tables.
And raising kids is not for everybody (and shouldn't be as we are over-populated) plus stay at home moms went out with the 1950s. I don't know many couples with one salary anymore.
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<...>The internet is vast. Music hosting sites are one of the main categories. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of them is in the millions.<...>
Music hosting sites are not the only way a musician makes a living. Most musicians I know make a living by gigging. And I do know a number of musicians who make their living by playing music.
Just because you can record something and put it out there doesn't mean you can make a living at it. I know weekend painters, or those condo-ladies who paint water-colors and show it in local art fairs (that's probably a fair comparison),
There are a lot of amateur or semi-pro painters, photographers, dancers, actors, writers, and others who dabble in the arts, and then again, there are a lot who make a living doing those very same arts.
Most small businesses fail in the first 5 years. That includes produce marts, real estate agencies, retail outlets, restaurants, dry cleaners, auto repair shops, software start-ups, and anything else you can think of. There are a million reasons to fail in a small business, and most of them do fail.
But some also do not fail. A very small percentage get rich and famous, and the majority that make it, make a living doing it, and nobody outside their area ever knows about them.
If you are not a superstar, it doesn't mean you failed. You could do quite well for yourself with a local clientele in any small business. It depends on your talent, business skills, timing, and a few things that are not in your control.
And it's not only music jobs that dry up.
But what about the factory workers in Flint, Michigan? They lost their jobs when the GM decided to outsource. Is this any better than being a musician? They may have been doing better than me in the 60s, but I'm doing better than them now. The things that were not in their control led to their hardship.
I have a friend who worked for Sears, and was downsized. He ran out of unemployment, did little odd jobs when he could, and finally had a nervous breakdown. The things that were not in his control got to him.
Accountants (CPA's) are being replaced by Tax Cut Software.
Turnpike Toll Takers are being replaced by auto-responder devices.
Hotel jobs are scarcer due to teleconferencing and high airline fares.
Pilots and flight attendants are no longer secure in their positions.
Factory luthiers are being replaced by computer-operated jigs that cut out perfect guitar shapes.
Printing typesetters are all but replaced by computers (my father was one all his life).
Newspapers are being replaced by the Internet.
Record companies are being hurt by downloads and file sharing.
One person with a CAD program can do the work of 10 draftsmen/draftswomen.
One pharmacist now has 20 assistants doing his/her work which puts 19 other pharmacists out of work.
What about the people who used to make film for cameras, and those who made their living developing them?
Videotape manufacturers?
Vinyl Record manufacturers?
Radiologists are now being outsourced to Asia. The x-rays are digital, they go over the internet, and the diagnosis comes back. Another elite profession outsourced.
Even the USPS is in trouble because of e-mail!
And it isn't new, the ballad of "John Henry" runs it back to the days when railroad workers slung a sledge hammer and got replaced by the steam driver.
And these are a few examples.
The world changes, and as it does, some jobs will get eliminated. Musicians are not the only ones in this position.
To take the example of "freelance musicians" hear mournful coda as the jobs dry up, and instead of "freelance musicians" substitute auto-workers, Certified Public Accountants, Pharmacists, Drafts-persons, typesetters, TV and other appliance repairmen/women, steel workers, machinists, and hundreds of other trades and you will pretty much have a similar story.
I'm still making a living as a musician, and a number of my friends are. True, there aren't as many jobs as there were in the past, but it's the same with many other professions.
You can be a self-employed business person, or you can work for a giant corporation and become a "wage slave" (yes, that's what they call you) or find a place in-between if you can. None of these positions are secure. The days of my father's who set type for the newspaper until he got his gold watch and retired are gone.
Times change, businesses change, and just about everything you are doing now will become obsolete in the future.
I was a Cable TV Electronics Field Engineer for 5 years while playing music on the weekends. I was testing the "real world" with the electronics skills I learned in college. The company laid off up to 15 years. Nobody I know got called back. Instead the new plug-and-play technology allowed them to hire people with much less skill and training and therefore would work for much less money. And all the Cable TV manufacturers were also laying off, so there was no place for me to go. I went back to full-time music, and haven't regretted it.
Playing music turned out to be more secure than electronics engineering.
And life is short. There is no guarantee of the promised afterlife, although we all hope there is one. So what's worse? Living as a wage slave, enduring the week, and waiting for the weekend while you have some false security and the constant risk of being downsized? Or doing something that you love so much for a living that it doesn't seem like you are working.
I don't say I HAVE to got to work today. I say I GET to go to work today. I'm living a very happy life. I play music for a living. I don't take orders from anybody, but live by the decisions I make for myself. I have fun on the job. I like it so much that more often than not, I work without taking a break. Not because I have to, but because I'm having too much fun to stop. I'm living a happy life, what could be better than that?????
A wise man once said, "If you do for a living what you would do for free, you will never work a day in your life." -- and other than the two "day jobs" that I had (phone repairman and Cable TV Engineer), I've never worked a day in my life.
When you get to the end of your life, and if you have a moment to reflect on your life, and you can truly say to yourself, I had a great time while I was here, you are successful. If you made a zillion dollars but endured your work week and simply existed for your 2 week vacation all your life, you were a failure. At least that's the way I see it.
I'm having a great time. I've played music in most US states and foreign countries all the way to the People's Republic of China. I lived on a cruise ship for 3 years. I've warmed up for famous stars and met famous musicians on equal terms, peer to peer, not fan to star. I almost made the big time myself. I've been intimate with more women than most men get to and in the end found the best woman for me, my soul mate Leilani. I've rubbed shoulders with the richest of rich and the poor and downtrodden and been treated with respect by them all. I'm treated as an artist, not an underling or employee. It's a lot better than climbing telephone poles, stuffing mail into a box, or working in some office.
If my son or daughter wanted to be a musician, I would explain the business to them in detail, and if I thought they would be happier as a musician than a corporate wage slave, I'd encourage it.
And for all the corporate types that keep telling people that they cannot be artists for a living, I remind them the fable that ends with the phrase, "Sour grapes."
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Last edited by Notes Norton; 12/13/10 06:16 PM.
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interesting side note to this thread:
even as many musical venues dry up, there is still one place where live music is alive and well: church.
Pick up any phone book and look in the yellow pages under CHURCHES.. there are more churches than clubs in most towns, and nearly all of them have live music, played by their members.
Anyone who makes software for musical creation should take note of the fact that faith-based music is far more than a niche market segment. In terms of human participation as a percentage of the whole population, it may well be the largest musical segment of all
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What's different between that and any other Ma and Pa business? I used to eat at an Italian Restaurant, Papa was the chef, Mama was the hostess, ran the register, and waited tables, and the kids waited and bussed tables.
Huge difference Notes. Anybody can learn to be the hostess/waitress/cashier at a restaurant but how many average girls can learn from nothing how to front a group as the girl singer? That is obviously a highly desirable skill/talent set. And, btw Bob I am highly jealous of you. Leilani must be a heckuva cool lady
My point with all those websites was not to show they're not making any money, it's to show how many good players and bands there are. There's so many great players who have graduated from music schools all over the world in the last 20 years that the chances of making a living are even less now than the already slim chances it's always been. Heck, I was much more successful than most and I know what it takes. I was on the road for 6 years. We were booked by one of the largest booking agencies in North America, MusArt Corp, with the owner Bob Vincent being our personal agent. I saw him on Star Search in the 80's as a celebrity judge. I worked in every state in the country including Hawaii twice in the big "A" rooms. Pat Benatar was our last girl singer before the band broke up and she went back to New York and became a star. The previous one wound up at Cesears doing a show with Sinatra. I was close man, real close but no cigar.
At the time it was like you said, I was making at least the same if not a bit more than I could make at a regular job at the time. I don't think that can be done now but I don't really know for sure because I'm not in it anymore, I resigned from AFM 20 years ago. And yeah, I was actively trying to hook up with a girl singer to be able to do what you are now doing. Give Leilani a big hug for me and tell her if I had been around at the time you wouldn't have stood a chance...
Bob
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"The world changes, and as it does, some jobs will get eliminated. Musicians are not the only ones in this position."
Not to mention the current economy. My son is a construction project manager in Vegas.
One sad thing is that a lot of schools dump their music programs as funding declines.
Stan
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Notes,
I have to agree with jazzmammal, I also envy your situation. I've never tried to make a living with music. It's always been a hobby.
I've had several offers over the years to play in working bands, but the only ones I accepted were ones where it was agreed beforehand that it only be for a few gigs until they found someone else because I didn't want music to become a "job".
I had a duo for a couple of years and we only performed songs that I'd written. We deliberately only booked a couple of gigs a month since we both had full time jobs that frequently required travel and long hours. This allowed us to get our performing "fix" and maintain our jobs.
After that it was sporadic and just putting together an ad hoc band, duo or trio to play gigs at festivals, radio programs, flatpicking contests, weddings, parties, ......... aka mostly jam sessions with an audience.
In hindsight, I wish I had pursued it seriously. You're "living the dream" bro.
I'm obviously familiar with your web site for BIAB files, but what's your web site for your duo?
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It's always been this way. Seriously. Read Beethoven's biography.
I know several folks here in Denver and Colorado Springs that are absolutely proving all of the 'drying up' comments wrong.
Different skills for different times. The world is your stage now with the Internet / YouTube / Facebook / Twitter / Reverbnation. If you know how to work that and have real talent, you can be successful.
Of course it's possible Scott. The question is how likely is it no matter how good you are at working these things. The other question is who determines, before you go down that path, the definition of "real talent"? How many of Beethoven's peers who were equally talented but never caught that break died broke and miserable? If you have a teenage child who's preparing for college and they happen to really like music and are talented (but does it meet the definition of "real talent"), would you truly encourage them to spend $20,000 per year for a four year music degree at a big university rather than engineering, business and finance, health care, environmental geology, whatever? Pursuing their passion as a sideline while they're getting a real degree sure, but as a major? Was Tyler strictly a musician only or was he doing something real while trying to make it? Good for him by the way, he is good and it's a great story.
Stories like that are what kept me going for many years too.
Bob
Bob,
I think we actually agree nearly 100%. Tyler gets paid via iTunes purchases. I'm sure there were many equally talented musicians as Beethoven in his day but they didn't get the commissioned gigs like he did with his benefactor(s).
I'll turn this whole thing around a little bit.
When was the last time anyone reading this thread paid out good money to go hear some live music? I paid a well-deserved $10 each for my wife and I to hear Acoustic Eidolon this past weekend. Talk about some talent - ridiculous out-of-the-ballpark talent.
Also, I agree with your previous post about the plethora of talent that is out there. It is mind-boggling. I'm like Bobcflatpicker, I've intentionally avoided situations to where music became my sole source of money.
I did play a gig on the 4th as part of a band to help a church raise funds for a microloan program to villagers in Tanzania. We raised only 300$, but I didn't know exactly what the benefit was for ahead of time. Could have worked harder on the promotion and raised more money.
Anyway - people are paying for recorded music in bucketloads these days. And we all get to be part of that whereas even 15 years ago, it was much more difficult to say that.
Oh - Tyler has a T-shirt design company as well.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 12/14/10 04:53 PM.
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When was the last time anyone reading this thread paid out good money to go hear some live music? I paid a well-deserved $10 each for my wife and I to hear Acoustic Eidolon this past weekend. Talk about some talent - ridiculous out-of-the-ballpark talent.
Anyway - people are paying for recorded music in bucketloads these days. And we all get to be part of that whereas even 15 years ago, it was much more difficult to say that.
Yeah, I do the same thing. Every time I'm down at the 3rd Street Promanade in Santa Monica I'll drop a minimum of five bucks into the tip jar of the street musicians I like. All you see in movies or TV are the bizarro street performers but there's some serious players down there. People have told me from time to time I should do it too. I hear they make upwards of $300 a day but you have to get licensed by the city and logistics would be a real problem plus who guards my stuff when I have to take a break? I can rain around here so that's a factor too. For all I know there may be a 5 year waiting list to even get a spot. Still, I've seen some keyboard players who are pretty good but they're weak in the backing tracks department and I definitely could put on a show. Hummpph, I decided to do a little search before I posted this and found a blog about those street performers. Apparantly, everyone is assigned a three hour slot but not a specific space so those are first come first served. Some guys are saying you have to show up several hours early in order to get a decent spot and more on weekends and holidays. That's doesn't sound too great but they do say $3-400 a day is true. Between the parking and schleping equipment I think they earn their pay.
I know you're plugged into the internet scene more than I am and it's good to hear you say people are paying more for online music than they were a few years ago. Maybe I will finish that album of orginals and see what happens...
Bob
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<...>I'm obviously familiar with your web site for BIAB files, but what's your web site for your duo?
http://www.s-cats.com
I get pretty sick of people saying, "You can't make a living being a musician." I know too many people who are.
I suppose if you read the forum for CPA's you will read, "You can't make a living being an accountant anymore."
I suppose if you read the newspaper writer's forum you will read, "You can't make a living being a reporter anymore."
And so on......
And I suppose that is true for most professions. But on the other hand, there are people who are still making a living at those professions as they change with the times. And yes, there are people who drop out of the profession, even talented ones. Just as there are in any profession.
And jazzmammal, sure anyone can learn to be the hostess/waitress at a restaurant, but that's not all that's involved in running a small business like a Ma and Pa restaurant. Somebody has to be a talented cook, someone has to know where to get the best ingredients at the best price, someone has to know how to keep the books, someone has to know the market trends, someone has to know what the competition is doing, someone has to know how to maintain the equipment or who to call, someone has to know the health department code and how to comply with it, someone has to know where the most effective advertising is, someone has to know what insurance is required and what insurance is not, someone has to know how to minimize overhead, and so on.
A small business is a small business and what you see on the surface is not all there is.
Lawyers are pretty talented, and I have heard of a few quitting the profession because they couldn't get enough good paying work.
A friend of mine was a surgeon, but is now teaching high school because he could make more money as a teacher than a doctor. Too many doctors, too much overhead (malpractice insurance, office costs, staff, etc.).
A friend of mine was an engineer for a large photographic film and camera manufacturer. He loved engineering as much as I love playing music. Engineering was downsized, he took a job as a sales rep.
You can hear the same story in every small business or profession and many big ones as well. On the other hand, you do have the Pat Benetar and Gloria Estefan types that break out and become rich and famous. That's simply the breaks.
Most small businesses will fail in five years or less. If it was easy, the numbers would be better.
Most big corporations are downsizing and outsourcing.
Much of the problem is the economy. You simply cannot fight two wars on the country's "credit card" and have good economy. And you can't compound that debt by hiring mercenaries to do the fighting for you at a higher rate than our finest, and then say you are shrinking the size of the government by doing so.
The fact is that you still can make a living by being a musician, CPA, engineer, luthier, or whatever, but just about everything is more difficult than it used to be. And it will be until we quit our military adventures and get our Federal budget balanced again as it was in the latter 1990s.
Of course, as in any small business, being a musician means not living the "normal" life. It's no 9-5 gig with employer paid benefits. There is no paid sick leave (more often than not you work through it), no paid vacations, you pay self-employment tax, your bank, insurance, phone and everything else costs more, you work much more than 40 hours, but it doesn't really seem that much like work, it's just what you do. On the other hand, you make or fail by your own decisions, you are not taking orders from someone else, and you are basically living life on your own terms.
I wouldn't trade it for anything, but it's not for everyone.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Off-Topic
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 618
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 618 |
Printing typesetters replaced by computers.
I worked Pre-Press and as a Typesetter in the 80s.
Lots of photographic work which has been gone for years.
I got into Computers in the 80s and a lot of those skills helped me make a living with computers. Setting up PCs for private business and a county Library System.
I remember upgrading PCs when HardDrives came out. Also increasing the RAM to 64 kilobytes.
You're lucky when you can adapt your old skills to use in new ones.
Wayne,
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Off-Topic
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,404
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,404 |
Quote:
<...>
You're lucky when you can adapt your old skills to use in new ones.
Wayne,
I did the same with computers and music.
It's survival of the fittest, or in other words, adaptability.
As the world changes, those who can make the changes survive.
I have a friend who plays trumpet. Refused to play anything but Dixieland and standards. Doesn't want to work with computers or backing tracks. But the people who grew up listening to Dixieland and Sinatra are no longer a good market. To many are dead and the ones still alive don't spend a lot of money. My friend is now teaching school and playing Dixieland or Standards a couple of times per month.
He was one of the people who when I started messing with my Atari/ST computer told me that I was putting musicians out of work with that machine. I told him I was putting a musician to work, me!
Musicians work is not the same as it was when I was on the road. But neither is typesetting. Adapt and survive or face another alternative.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Off-Topic
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
Quote:
But the people who grew up listening to Dixieland and Sinatra are no longer a good market. To many are dead and the ones still alive don't spend a lot of money.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Hey, I resemble that remark!
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Off-Topic
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,404
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,404 |
Sorry about that.
Funny thing. I've been playing since the 60s. For most of my life, whenever I saw gray hair I enjoyed playing standards. They are musically challenging and fulfilling.
Now when I see gray hair I have to enjoy playing Elvis Presley, The Beatles and Disco.
And I think, "What are these old people doing listening to MY music!!!" and if I look in the mirror, I immediately see the answer.
Funny how you think your music is still new, even decades after it becomes old ;-)
Survival means playing whatever the particular audience in front of you wants to hear.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
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XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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