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RealBand
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Hi Folks,
This one had me confused from the what's new in Realband video
It looked like élastique would allow real time tempo changes for real tracks.
It doesn't. They are still audio tracks and although you can statically change the tempo, you still can't just nudge up or down the tempo in real time like you can do in BIAB.
Alas, BAIB still does not have sync to external midi clock in.
Oh well - still no real time tempo changes from external devices.
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RealBand
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Well if you think about the difference between RB & BIAB it may make sense.You may have a whole bunch of other audio tracks recorded as well as RTs.I don't think that you could effectively change those other tracks. Maybe they could make that happen. Just a guess here.
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RealBand
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Elastique used in other applications is also a static apply to non-playing tracks. The math involved is pretty complicated. Almost impossible to do what it does real-time to audio.
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RealBand
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I only have realtracks and MIDI tracks.
I wish Realtracks worked like they do in BAIB and let you do tempo adjustments dynamically.
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RealBand
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Quote:
I wish Realtracks worked like they do in BAIB and let you do tempo adjustments dynamically.
But they don't. The two applications don't pretend to be identical in every way.. otherwise, why would you need two apps? They ARE, however, highly compatible.
The development progression that works for most of us is to use BIAB as a rapid prototyping stage where you still have a lot of flexibility to change chords, styles, tempos, patches etc.
Once you get the basic song where you want it, THEN move it to the RB environment. There you still have flexibility to continue adding new tracks, and tweaking the old stuff in terms of effects, panning, MIDI resolution, recording multiple audio or MIDI performances.
It sounds like you are moving to the polishing stage before you are satisfied with the song prototype. That is easily solved going forward, but not so easily solved in retrospect. Your best bet is to reopen the original BIAB project and resolve your basic song tempo and structure before continuing to RB for tweaking.
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RealBand
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Expert
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Cornet Curmudgeon
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RealBand
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BAIB can't sync to external Midi clock
RB can.
But RB doesn't treat realtracks like realtracks.
I use BAIB for live performances. I can loop, and adjusts tempo's on the fly, if the singer starts snapping her fingers that she wants the song faster or slower.
I'd like to do more tracks live, like with RB. But I can't because the benefits of realtracks are not the same as BIAB.
The problem with BAIB is the tap tempo is terrible compared to other tools out there. Try in the middle of song to adjust the tempo via tap. Then try it with Midi Maestro - it's perfect. If I only use midi tracks with RB - then I can exactly follow tempo.
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RealBand
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Joined: Aug 2006
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The problem here is typical Raintalk, What you want is a machine to be human, If you want a band that acts like humans, adjust on the fly, changes at the whime of some singer's wish off the top of her head, then what you need is a live human band. Computers for how they have evolved, still lack human intellegence, and a God designed brain that can exceed anything that can EVER be written in code.
You want a REAL band not Real band. Get REAL dude!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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RealBand
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Joined: Oct 2007
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The point is Realtracks don't work like Realtracks in BAIB
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RealBand
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OK, I see what you're saying now. Let me reiterate to make sure I'm understanding correctly this time:
1) you want to control your performance in real time using the MIDI sync clock...
2) but BIAB does not support MIDI sync, whereas RB does...
3) however, in spite of the fact that real tracks respond to tempo changes in BIAB, they remain static in RB (which pretty much makes MIDI sync pointless unless your entire song is MIDI)
I'd say this has more to do with differences in the way RB and BIAB engines drive the Real Tracks, not that the real tracks themselves are any different. This sounds like a legitimate wish list request.
They'd either need to make BIAB respond to MIDI sync or change the way RB handles RT in that environment.
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RealBand
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Another big difference is the RT generation times. Much faster in Biab.
The two programs are completely different. One is well, Biab and the other is a stand alone sequencer that they decided to kludge some Biab functions into. To me it's obvious that Biab is going to handle Biab specific things much better/faster than RB can. They do keep adding good things though like the addition of the Biab midi soloists. That's very cool.
All this is still a work in progress for me. Right now I'm doing most of the RT generation in Biab and then D & D those tracks into RB because RB is not taking advantage of the new faster generation times.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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"The problem with BAIB is the tap tempo is terrible compared to other tools out there. Try in the middle of song to adjust the tempo via tap. Then try it with Midi Maestro - it's perfect. If I only use midi tracks with RB - then I can exactly follow tempo."
Here is lies again the problem. You and others here (myself included at times) keep trying to compare BiaB and RB to other systems and wonder why it can't do something the other program can. Try to get midi maestro to do anything else that BiaB can do. It is easy to point out one thing BiaB does not do that some other program can. You can ask for one program to do everything, it is not practical or even reasonable. So many want what Mac calls the swiss army knife of recording. A Program that combines all the features of every other program out there, would be bloated and clumsy.
Let's look at the other issue, you want RB to adjust the RealTracks like BiaB does. First off that is a feature of BiaB due to it's auto accompaniment structure not a feature of a Sequencer. If other sequencers on the market could take a Realtrack and on the fly tempo adjust it, then I would maybe find RB deficient. But wait that's right other Sequencers can't even play/generate/process RealTracks, let alone adjust them. Some programs, Sonar, Acid can take groove clips and acidized loops and do crazy things with them, but those are nothing like RTs.
I do think understand what you want here, and if you want put it in the wish list. I doubt it is possible anytime soon. Maybe Elastique is the beginning of these things, we have all seen what Melodyne can do with audio. It never hurts to ask for stuff, but i guess the reason i am sensitive about these things is that i have seen what over development does to a great software. All one has to do is go to either cubase, or Sonar forums and read the countless bugs and problems they have with each successive release it doesn't get better it gets worse. Sure those programs settle down after a while, but there are bug fixes that are three and four releases old and hasve never been sorted out. Mostly due to new features added that over shadow the old, and cause countless new issues to fix. I hat to think of PG becoming that way as well.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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RealBand
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Joined: Oct 2007
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OP
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I see that RB calls BIAB to generate the Realtracks and passes back audio, (and midi if you ask for it). So they aren't really Realtracks. I made a bad assumption watching the video. I'll still stick with BAIB if I want to adjust tempo live.
I can use Midi Maestro to send taps to BIAB as midi note on/off. Midi Maestro is very good about following a tap to gradually increase or decrease tempo and not suddenly jumping like tap direct in BAIB. I can "conduct" fine from Midi Maestro, using it to send the midi commands to BAIB conductor to change tempo or jump around. BAIB does glitch at times doing this, but it glitches directly without midi maestro running it.
RB just isn't there - yet.
The 2011 realtracks are great!
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RealBand
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If both programs did the exact same things - there would not be a need for one of them...
I look at it like this: Whichever program does what I need to do at the time is the one used.
Git 'R Done!
RealBand may not be able to stretch the RealTracks, but then BiaB cannot record multiple simultaneous audio tracks either.
The solution right now lies in being able to move project stuff between the two in order to get what you want.
--Mac
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RealBand
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Well, as I understand it, BIAB doesn't really generate the RealTracks faster per-se; it only lets you start playing the song while it continues to generate the rest of the song in the background, so it gives you the appearance of generating the song faster.
RealBand, on the other hand, generates the whole track before giving control back to you to allow you to edit anywhere on the track.
BIAB makes use of a multi-thread processor that allows generation of the RealTrack to continue on a different thread than the playback. That's why older, single-processor machines can't take advantage of the quick song generation.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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