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Greetings, I just saw an article in CNN, it sent chills through me.......now they have improvising robots with 4 hands playing jazz. They don't have an ego, don't need breaks, drinks or food. Guess I'll have to go to that truck driving school I saw on TV..... http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/04/29/robot.musician/index.html?hpt=T2Depressed in Acapulco, Ed
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I consistently heard more notes than i observed possible beater moves for...
--Mac
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Well, it says something about geniuses like Lionel Hampton. The robot needs four arms and eight mallets! That's twice as much as what Lionel needs to do his thing.
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Coincidentally, I was watching an old rerun of StarTrek The Next Generation last weekend and one of the main characters is Lt. Commander Data, a humanoid android and his whole thing throughout the series was to try to become more "human". In this episode he took up violin and synthisized Heifitz and another violinist to create a hybrid performer and everybody loved it. He said he was not happy with it, it was just his positronic brain analyzing every performance those two players ever did and putting all the bits together, no feeling or emotion but the audience including Captain Picard thought he played brillantly. I have no doubt that kind of thing is coming and not 300 years in the future either. It's like there's no longer any point in having the human chess champion play the latest supercomputer because he was beaten several years ago and the computers are only getting better.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
They don't have an ego, don't need breaks, drinks or food.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/04/29/robot.musician/index.html?hpt=T2
Depressed in Acapulco,
Ed
Ed,
There ya go, if they don't have an ego or require drinks or food they just can't be a Jazz musician . . . just saying.  
Later,
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Bob, There was another episode, and it's been so long since, I've forgotten it. I believe Data found his 'mother', i.e. Noonian Sung's wife. They played violin together, and from that encounter, he deduced that she in fact was also an android, although she didn't know it. So, you must wonder, if an android would not be self aware of it's status as a machine, could it go beyond it's programming to feel empathy, pain, emotion, and then swing it eight to the bar?  Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Quote:
it's status as a machine, could it go beyond it's programming to feel empathy, pain, emotion, and then swing it eight to the bar?
It's funny, you're use of "it" to refer to Data reminds me of one of the very best episodes ever where a researcher wanted to take Data back to his lab to disassemble "it" for study and it wound up in court to determine if Data was a legal person or simply an "it". Riker was the prosecutor and Picard the defense and that whole ep was just great. At the end Data turns to the researcher and says the court just gave him the right to choose if he wants to go to the lab and be disassembled. He said "I choose not but I am willing to help you in any other way I can". It was a remake of one of Heinlein's classic books about a genetically engineered monkey with human level intelligence and did the monkey have human rights or not.
The deal about a machine having emotions is very interesting. I personally think not but the appearance of feelings can be synthisized so well that it would fool almost anybody interacting with it, sort of like that experiment years ago where a researcher put in a whole series of questions and answers into a computer and had real people interact with it and then judge if they were dealing with a real person or not. Most thought it was a real person.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 04/29/10 02:41 PM.
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Quote:
. . . sort of like that experiment years ago where a researcher put in a whole series of questions and answers into a computer and had real people interact with it and then judge if they were dealing with a real person or not. Most thought it was a real person.
Bob
The famous ELIZA program. It was named after Professor Henry Higgins's protege.
R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Just watched the video and my instinctive reaction was "shut up and let me hear the music"!
tony
Lenovo lappie, 4Gb RAM, 500Gb HD
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Running BIAB under WINE
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The Eliza program was a lot of fun.
The experiment Bob is describing is called the Turing test.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Quote:
It's like there's no longer any point in having the human chess champion play the latest supercomputer because he was beaten several years ago and the computers are only getting better.
Bob
More like its going on several decades ago, Bob.
Carnegie Mellon Univ. and "Deep Thought" was the original project name, later changed to "Deep Blue" (can you tell who must've funded from that? )
Anyway, the first time the computer beat a human Chess Master was in 1989. The machine beat none other than the great Kasparov.
I was on the other side of the campus at the time over a the Field Robotics Center, helping out as best I could in support of the development of the world's first totally autonomous vehicle.
Over thirty years ago.
I must be havin' fun, cuz time has been FLYIN'...
--Mac
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Matt,
I was going to reply to this thread last night, and I started looking at stuff. There is a program, not for Windows 7 yet, which is DeskMates, an interactive desktop avatar for your computer. With associated programs, it will do what you tell it to. One of the associated programs for it is 'HAL.' It is an AI program. I'm going to keep my eye on the development of this into Windows 7, since MS pulled a critical component of the program from Windows 7, and they are struggling to find a way around that.
Bob, Heinlein delved into machine/emotions on more than one occasion, i.e. Minerva and her sister Athene Pallas, as well as Dora. As computers get faster and more complicated, will it be possible to allow a computer 'free will?' What defines sentience? Could you program a computer to be 'self aware?' Was Adam Selene 'alive?'
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Quote:
Bob, Heinlein delved into machine/emotions on more than one occasion, i.e. Minerva and her sister Athene Pallas, as well as Dora. As computers get faster and more complicated, will it be possible to allow a computer 'free will?' What defines sentience? Could you program a computer to be 'self aware?' Was Adam Selene 'alive?'
Gary
Oh yeah, I didn't want to go into all those examples because I'd turn this thread into a Heinlein fan club. I have all his books, I basically had them all memorized by the time I was 25 or so and taking nothing away from the other "Golden Age" authors like Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, Doc Smith etc, Heinlein was far and away the best imho. Btw, there was a blurb in a Hollywood trade paper last year, can't remember which one now, saying J. Michael Strazynski (Babylon 5) is working on an adaption of the Lensmen series for Ron Howard. How awesome would that be?
Arggh, I'm doing it again. Get me talking about classic SF and it's all over. Break out the beer, it's going to be an all nighter...
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Nothing to be depressed about here.
Anyone here used BIAB, RB and/or Soloist feature? You've used a stand-in then.
The difference is that Jazz and what is defined as Jazz evolves over time. What the future holds in terms of fashion and classification as Jazz is unknown, and may I say, unpredictable.
Chess is not unpredictable. There are rules and strategy which can be defined such that a calculating device/computer can be programmed to 'perform'.
Such is not the case with Jazz. Past performance can be analyzed, but future direction cannot be predicted.
Imagine Scott Joplin predicting Miles Davis. Can't happen on a human level, and will never happen in a stratified manner with computers. What is in fashion tomorrow will always surprise and refresh and redefine what we call something today.
I just heard a review and some cuts of a kid out of N.O. that's playing jazz trombone lately - just catching fire with the jazz world at large - can't recall his name, but the kid is kicking current jazz in the pants and making it something new. A computer will not do this. Sure there may be some algorithms that approximate creativity, but that's all it will ever be. The computer doesn't grow up in a neighborhood, doesn't have a life experience, doesn't have lost loves and lost dreams and hopes and desires. That's the fuel that fires creativity in reality. That's where Jazz and all other forms of music thrive. Automated performance of any kind will always be some approximation of genius, but never genius in and of itself.
Bring it on I say.
-Scott
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Oh, the things we have learned from The Jetsons and Star Trek!!! Who'd a thunk some kid someplace would be watching these episodes that some imaginative writer had in his brain and took it to the next level by saying... "Why not?"
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I would hate to be the guitar tech for that mess! Just changing the strings would be a full time job!
Awesome Bob! Thanks for finding that one. I am going to have to share that with some music geeks I know.
Cheers!
RickeG
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RickeG, Just to give you a heads up, that thing isn't real! It's an animation, and a darned good one at that. It almost had me fooled for a minute. Bob
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There was an interesting story/video on the Animusic creation. All the sounds are synth, and the animation is actually MIDI driven.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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