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That's a good point. Perhaps use Coyote Forte, something affordable and available on the PG Music website.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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>>>...I figure a lot of the musicians shopping for my styles are going to use their computer's sound card or built in software synth to play them back. If my demos sounded much better using a decent synth than the end user's sound card, he/she might think I was cheating...>>>
WHAT I THINK: I think you are putting honesty and integrity ahead of squeezing the last dollar out of your advertising efforts. I dont know if this is the most lucrative approach, but it certainly confirms my impression of Mr Notes as a man who deserves my trust and admiration.
Last edited by flatfoot; 03/14/14 06:13 PM.
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As an alternative to making high(er) quality versions of every demo, perhaps do something to Dare to Compare. Have several versions of a few representative styles using different sound sources and quality. The customer can then know that all the styles can sound as good as you want to pay.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thank you all for voicing both sides of the problem.
JimFogle, that's exactly what concerns me.
Thanks for the kind words Flatfoot
Matt, I was just thinking about a "Dare to Compare" yesterday.
I keep flip-flopping and that may be a compromise.
With RTs out, I feel I need to show the potential of my styles and that they can approach RT quality with a proper synth. But then I would disappoint those who use the Windows or Apple soft synth.
My name is on everything, and that's important to me.
So right now I'm thinking about this, and I may change my mind.
Doing a few demos on the Win "wavetable", SD-90, VSC, Ketron and a couple of others -- put it in a square on the top of each page that has demo files with the "Dare To Compare" headline, and then go about doing all my new files with the SD90 and slowly changing the others.
I'd especially like to hear from people like Jim and Flatfoot about this idea.
I'd rather make fewer sales than for someone to think I've ripped them off. Like I said, my name is on it and my name has never been associated with anything less than the best I can do and an honest person to deal with.
Bob
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I think that approach would be good. It's transparent, fair and educational, and not an overwhelming amount of retro work.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Bob, I agree with Matt on your compromise suggestion. It is educational from the aspect not everyone knows about high quality sound sources; they just know that there songs don't sound like the demo but don't know why. Your compromise will let them know why.
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Still debating, still flip-flopping, and I'm still gigging a lot so I have more time to contemplate before making the final decision. I know that in my fake disks I tell people there are no melodies or lyrics on the disk. I put it right on top of the ordering box, and I even title the paragraph "THE FINE PRINT" because we are all told to read the fine print. Still I get a couple of people per year who write back disappointing because there isn't a melody on the fake disk. By then money has been automatically sent to the Visa/MC authorization company, Visa/MC merchant's account, and subcontractors, so I cannot refund their money. It makes me sad. So if they don't read that, will they pay any attention to the Dare to Compare? Perhaps 2 demos of the same song would be better. SC demo (Sound Card) SD demo (SD-90) Of course the advantageous is the extra work (no big deal), the time spent (big deal) and the bandwidth used in the site (after a certain point, I get charged for bandwidth). A lot of web hosts no longer have a bandwidth charge, but moving my site to another host could open up another can of worms. I went through 3 bad ones before I found this one. Plus it will make this page http://www.nortonmusic.com/styledemo.html a lot more complicated. But I'm still contemplating and appreciating all the feedback I'm getting here and via PMs. Thanks again y'all. Bob
Last edited by Notes Norton; 03/16/14 06:06 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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PGMusic has already gone to the trouble of making a demo that compares the way a song sounds with different sound sources. DEMO PAGE Maybe they would grant permission to link to their demos from your web site. In the final analysis, you just want to make the point that sound quality in MIDI files is largely a function of the sound source. The songs used wouldn't have to be yours to make that point. Why spend valuable time reinventing the wheel?
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A lot of web hosts no longer have a bandwidth charge, but moving my site to another host could open up another can of worms. I went through 3 bad ones before I found this one. Maybe if you contact them and let them know you are looking at other sites that don't have a bandwidth charge, they'll drop it for you in order to keep from losing your business. That way you may get what you want without having the hassle of changing sites The worst they can say is "no", in which case you'll be exactly where you are now. But if they say "yes", you're in a better position with no extra effort.
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Hi All,
I found a midi blues style that has a sax fill, I played it and that's exactly was it was- no melody just a fill at the end of a chord. I replaced midi sax with realtracks and it just plays melody line. Is there a way to convert midi to realtracks and have it play the fill.
Bob
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There is a difference between MIDI and audio and MIDI. If you want to get a better sounding MIDI sax, the only answer I have is to get a better sounding synthesizer. But technology marches on, perhaps some day. ------ Back to Norton Styles: I've pretty much nixed the dare to compare idea. People don't read the entire page - myself included. Right now I'm thinking about two demos per style. Yes, it's more work, yes it's more bandwidth (yes, I'll call - good suggestion), and yes it will solve both sides of the dilemma. But what to call them. I've nixed Hi-Fi demo / Lo-Fi demo thanks to a suggestion via PM, I'd like the name to be short, perhaps Lo-Fi demo and Med-Fi demo? Close, but no cigar. Just Demo 1 and Demo 2. It doesn't really say it. How about demo and demo +? Someone else via PM suggested PC Demo and EXT Demo, I like that best so far. Anything else? I want it to be short so as not to unduly clutter this page http://www.nortonmusic.com/styledemo.html which is already pretty huge. And if possible, denote the difference between the sound card demo and the better demo. Bob
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Absolutely not PC and EXT. These leapfrog each other as the technology improves, but you can get terrible as well as outstanding sound quality depending on what you use.
I like Lo-Fi and Hi-Fi.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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"Pro MIDI"
vs
"Consumer MIDI"
--Mac
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good enough best
good better
default best
M4 pro Mac mini 1tb HD 24GB mem M3 MacBook Air 16GB mem casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
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I'm liking Mac's Pro Demo a lot, but would like to find a term for the sound card that is that concise.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I'm liking Mac's Pro Demo a lot, but would like to find a term for the sound card that is that concise.
Notes how about PC DEMO since those most likely to complain about quality are probably just playing MIDI thru whatever resources came with their PC. (Plus, it even SOUNDS generic and undesirable)
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how about PC DEMO since those most likely to complain about quality are probably just playing MIDI thru whatever resources came with their PC.
(Plus, it even SOUNDS generic and undesirable)
Pat are you talking about a MIDI demo that can be played on anyone’s computer? If so I thought about that but nixed it as anyone can DL the MIDI file and then have one part of the style; that is one A and one B part.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Right now I'm considering Mac's suggestion "Pro Demo" for the higher quality mp3 demo and Pat Marr's "PC Demo" for the sound card demo. I also plan to put the name of the synth used in the mp3 tags - perhaps in the Album Title field or the Artist Field. Those playing the demo with the Microsoft Media Player and some others will be able to see what synth I used. I have 4 new style disks in the works. - Dance/Techno with a bit of Smooth Jazz
- Country/Rockabilly
- Latin American
- European
A few new fake disks too. Not much work being done on them right now, it's the very busy gigging season. But here in Florida, "the season" dies after Easter and they bury it on Mother's Day. Stay tuned. Thanks again for all your suggestions, and if you have any more, they are certainly welcome. Bob
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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About the amount of work you would need to do to provide higher quality samples for all your styles, I think you could get away with representative samples if the page is formatted right.
In other words, let's say you have twenty styles in a group. Each will have a Play button which you can call PC Demo. A few, though, could also have a second button called Pro Demo. People could try that, hear and learn the difference and realize what is possible, and know that any style they might buy is also capable of sounding so much better than the PC demo quality.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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