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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Hi There,
I have just tried to acheive an 8 beats to the bar song by expanding the chords (which doubles the tempo). All of the realtracks in the style reacted by switching to half time (which is exactly what I hoped for) but the realdrums are still playing at full speed.
Is there any way to make realdrums play half time?
Many thanks
Regards, Aubrey
If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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Tried regenerating?
There are some half-time drums in the drum folder of the ultrapak. Depends on style required.
Another option is to try use the ACW to change the tempo to half time. I've seen this feature, haven't experimented with it in BiaB.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Hi Rharv,
No, regenerating doesn't fix the problem.
I'm not sure if 1/2 time drum styles will have the correct feel for what I want. basically I want a normal drum style to play at 1/2 speed when I double the tempo (because I have expanded the chord sheet). I will check them out though, just in case (you never know!).
What is the ACW?
Many thanks
Regards, Aubrey
If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Freeze the drums before expanding?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Silvertones,
I have tried expanding (which doubles the tempo), setting the speed back to the original tempo and then freezing the drums. Unfortunately the 'frozen' drums speed up with the rest of the song when I set the tempo back to double time again. (I guess that it is just the 'pattern' of the drums which is frozen).
I can understand why the realdrums don't automatically go to half time in the same way as the realtracks because they don't have an 'optimum' tempo in the same way as the realtracks do (i.e. the realdrums are designed to operate over a much wider tempo range).
It would, however, be good if we could somehow 'force' them to half time.
I guess that it would be possible to burn them to a WAV file at the half temp speed and then bring them back into the audio track, but that is very cumbersome and also inflexible (e.g. it doesn't allow the option to try out shots, rests, etc in the context of the song at the correct speed. It also means that any change in the song arrangement require you to repeat the 'halve the tempo/burn the realdrums to WAV, Import the WAV to the Audio track/go back to double tempo again' cycle).
Any alternative ideas welcome. If this is not possible it would be great if PG Music could consider it as an enhancement in a future release.
Best Regards, Aubrey
If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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There are problems inherent with merely changing the tempo of an already recorded drum track.
When a drummer is playing at a slower tempo, the kind of fills used are typically going to be "more busy".
Likewise, faster tempos, the fills and such will be a bit more sparse in nature.
Speeding up a slow drum track only works to a certain degree and at some point becomes "busy" sounding.
Slowing down a drum track that was recorded at a faster tempo, the fills become dreadfully wanting.
I think the real answer to your problem would be to choose another RealDrum file -- or perhaps some more RealDrums files that have not been made yet, that can cover the halfime/doubletime situation properly.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Expert
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Expert
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What about going to BIAB, enter a blank sheet at half the bpms of your RB file, then gen the RD - save as wave file and export to your RB file - save as wave track and edit as required.  Might work. Never tried it though - Ian
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The half time drums surprised me recently. I believe it was called 'metal halftime, or such and it did exactly what I was hoping for, played the drums at a half time feel to the tempo. The ACW in Realband would change the actual tempo back, which may/may not be what you want. Not sure if this would be a sneaky work around.. it may keep the song flow as is and rewrite the tempo to what you originally wanted. Unfortunately it would change the MIDI tracks back in tempo too, but if you had them all converted to audio, prior to generating the half time drums (even just for this specific purpose) it may just pull it off. Or just create a fictional piece with the specs needed to create the drum part and bring that file in..
couple of ideas
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Mac,
i take your point about the kind of playing that a drummer would do being different at wildy different tempos.
This, however, was a song that was originally at 140bpm and the Realdrums (and realtracks) sounded fine at that speed. I expanded the measures (to get 8 beats per bar) and that doubled the song tempo to 280bpm.
The Realtracks automatically switched to half time and sounded pretty much the same as they had originally (i.e. half speed cancelled out double tempo).
My assumption was that if I could get the realdrums to also play at 280bpm but at half time then they would also sound pretty much the same as they had sounded originally at 140bpm (i.e. before I expanded the measures and doubled the song tempo).
Is that not the case?
Regards, Aubrey
If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Sounds like your experiment asnwered your own question.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Aubrey, I hate to jump in on this thread with another question. I am still learning many of the features and tempo adjustments is one of them. You are mentioning doubling your tempo and then expanding your chords. If you would not mind helping me with the term "expanding the chords." Do you mean that you extended the length of each chord played by 2 times?
How I think this would apply to my projects is that I find a particular style I like that gives a specific tempo speed to work with. Well, what if I want to adjust that tempo beyond the speed it dictates? Is that where doubling can be done? And if so, as with Mac's comment that it can affect the fills adversely, is there a way to make the sound so that it is natural during this modification?
I apologize if I sound out to lunch here. I am trying to understand to get a handle on this feature to where I can go further with the Real Band tracks from the fixed tempo count it offers.
Thanks,
RickeG
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
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OP
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Hi Mac,
No, all my experiment proved is that I can't find a way to make the realdrums play at half time.
What I have now is a track where all the realtracks are effectively playing at 140bpm (i.e. 280 bpm but at half time), but the drums are playing at the full 280 bpm (normal time). As you can imagine that doesn't sound too good!
If anyone knows of a way to get the realdrums playing at half time, (other than slowing the tempo back to 140 bpm and then rendering the drums to a wav file), that would be brilliant. Otherwise I would be grateful if PG could consider this as a future enhancement.
Regards, Aubrey
If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi RickeG,
The function that I used was from the edit menu:
Edit->Expand (Duration of Chords By Two)
This doubles the duration of each chord (i.e. it spreads the chord changes for each chord across two chords) and it also doubles the tempo of the song. (Which means that the total song duration should stay the same).
I am not sure what the original purpose of this feature was but I was hoping to use it to be able to effectively get 8 beats to the bar rather than 4 (useful if you have more than 4 chord changes to a bar or if you want to play several shots in close succession).
This wouldn't have worked too well previously with Realtracks because doubling their tempo would take them outside their playable range and this would introduce unpleasant stretching artifacts. In BIAB 2010, however, PG introduced a feature whereby if realtracks get stretched to a tempo that is more than double their recommended tempo then they will automatically switch to playing at half time. (I guess that the reverse is also true - if they get switched to less than half their recommended tempo they will switch to playing at double time).
Unfortunately it seems that Realdrums can't do the same trick (unless anyone knows otherwise?).
What I have been doing with the expanded chords seems to leave the realtracks playing at pretty much in their comfort zone (double tempo seems to cancel out half time and they sound pretty much as they did before I expanded the chords except that now I effectively have 8 beats to the bar).
I think that what YOU want to do, however, is leave the chords unexpanded but set the tempo to double that recommended for the reatracks. Instead of playing twice as fast (and sounding bad) the realtrack will automatically play at half time. It will technically 'fit' the new tempo but as Mac pointed out some of the playing may sound a bit odd for the higher tempo. Also, if all the tracks in the song are playing at half time then you may as well halve the tempo and have them playing full time. What I mean here is that the feature will probably be less useful if the entire style uses instruments that are running at half the tempo you want. It will be more useful if you have a style at a certain tempo and you want to add a real instrument which is only available at a much slower or a much faster tempo.
Also, as stated above, this won't work for Realdrums. This may not be a problem for you, however, as Realdrums tend to work fine over a much wider tempo range anyway .
I think that it may be a useful feature for your purposes but some realtracks are likely to be much more versatile at double/half speed than others. It will also depend upon what kind of realstyles you are adding them to - guess it will take a bit of trial and error to see which ones fit.
I hope that this is of some help.
Regards, Aubrey
If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I would say, visit the wish list to request that RealDrums behave the same as RealTracks in this regard. It may have to be a switch/option you set, in that RealDrums have a wider range of appropriate tempos they can use, so may not realize they need to switch to half time.
Also, it would be cool if they could do this with the MIDI styles as well (seems to me that the concept is the same). That would get you halfway there to having 8th note resolution. Change the interface a little and you're all the way, and could probably even enter the appropriate tempo, instead of double the tempo. That would provide backward compatibility to previous styles, as well.
Short of supporting 8th note resolution natively (which would be the desired implementation), it seems to me that a work around could be to have a check box for 8th note resolution, which then in the background doubles the chord resolution, but also doubles the tempo (but keeps the correct tempo displayed), and then changes the input cell display to support 8th note resolution (two bars now equals one bar, and the bar numbers are shown correctly). That check box could then affect MIDI, RealTracks (which we know can work today), and RealDrums).
Of course, as I said, native support would be the better way to go.
Just a thought.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Hi John,
I have now posted a request on the wishlist as you suggested. I thought I would try here first just in case anyone knew of a way of achieving half-time realdrums but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Many thanks to all for your responses.
Regards, Aubrey
If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor.
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