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Hi All,
I've been playing with the chord wizard thing to find the key of a song and the chords etc of one of my MP3 songs and I'm starting to have some success in that I can just about make out that it "resembles" the general sound of the original. I assume that if I was more practiced at using the style picker etc I'd be closer to the original on the first run through?
However, I was just wondering how close it is possible to get to the actual song (I haven't done much with RB yet!!). Just so you know I was working on Supertramps "take the long way home"....well somebody has to!!
Any comments (other than my choice of music!!), tips and maybe examples of what is possible would be very welcome.
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Hi Jed,
Chords are fair game. There's no copyright on the chords used to harmonize any song. If the chords were used to develop a signature riff (that stands outside of simply a chord change), though, copyright could well apply.
Melody and lyrics are fully copyrighted. With something like "Long Way Home". It would be possible to keep the chords the same and the melodic rhythm the same but the melody notes would have to be different to the extent that you created a melodic shape that was quite different from "Long Way Home". Lyrics would also need to be different.
A test would be to play your song and "Long Way Home" as instrumental versions. This would allow you to hear if they were similar or different.
Hope these thoughts help,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Hi Noel,
Thanks for the quick response!
I don't think I need to be too woried about copyright...I'm only doing this as an experiement and would never dream of trying to "sell" it with my voice!!
Mainly my idea was to try and get the chords and a close "copy" of the song so I can try and play my guitar along with it!
I kind of wondered if (with practice) you scaled BIAB & RB's ability to "reproduce" a song were 1 = nowhere close and 10 = perfect what sort of score would it get?
Hope this makes sense?
To be honest I think the song I chose is maybe too complex for a newbee like me to practice with!!
Regards,
Dave/Jed
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Hi Jed
if it isnt a silly question, why not just sort the chords, and then play along with the original?
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Hi Tommohawk,
No silly questions only silly answers...I'll try not to give one!
Your suggestion is one of the unspected benefits I found from BIAB...I didn't expect it to be able to do that (i.e. find key of song and produce the chords etc.)! However, my first attempt to find the chords for "Bitter Creek" by the Eagles seemed to throw up some "unusual" results... i.e it didn't seem to match the chords I had already found (but I'm no wizard) and I'm sure if I persivere BIAB will do better once I improve!!
Part of my first post here is pure inquisativness (?). But also a thought it would be good to have a very close version of a song/melody (without vocals) so I could try and (for example) actually play the guitar part by muting the on in the BIAB track.
My only defense here is that it was fairly early this morning when I hac the idea!
Regards,
Dave
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BiaB can make some great (and not so great) accompaniments for your cover tunes, but when it comes to things like melodic "hooks" and riffs that are commonly identified with a particular song, it cannot do that automatically, although there are certain few MIDI styles that do indeed tend to target a certain riff, even these won't "nail" the cover tune as the algorithm is not likely to place those things in exactly the same places as the original.
That said, it is indeed possible to get results that nail the original by use of imported MIDI files that have been made to do so. Typically you wouldn't use one of the BiaB internal Styles to do this, at that point it is like using BB to play back the MIDI file as a sequencing program would.
And there are various degrees of possibilities to be had with the Style files as well, such as recording your own MIDI tracks of the hooks and placing them on the Melody and Soloist tracks, perhaps even adding a real acoustic track to the sole Audio track in BB of your guitar or whatever as well. This latter method is not automatic and generally takes some time on the part of the user to implement, though.
You might find a good sounding MIDI file of your target song by searching the web and downloading same, then open it in BiaB onto the SEQ feature, which places all MIDi tracks onto the Melody track.
--Mac
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What I do for tunes that "just need" that certain part is use a MIDI file as Mac suggested but get rid of the non essential parts and replace them with RTs & RDs.Works well. Like the original but not Dead on.
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Thanks for the info but it leads to 2 more questions...
Can anyone recommend a good site for midi files (sure I saw a post for this a few days ago but can't find it using "search" and eyeball!!).
Bit (more) out of my depth here...is possible to download a midi file from the web and then "modify" it in BIAB and/or RT/RD?
Regards,
Dave
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One of the biggest problems I have found with midi or chord/lyric files is that the chords are not always correct.Some times the midi files are so simplified that it's hard to recognize the song. Because someone post the chords to a song does not mean they have the correct chord or position of that chord for the song. There can be a lot of cleanup to do. If it's for practice it will actually help to have to slug through some of those files.
To answer your last question, you can do almost anything you want, it just takes time. Wyndham
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Quote:
One of the biggest problems I have found with midi or chord/lyric files is that the chords are not always correct.Some times the midi files are so simplified that it's hard to recognize the song. Because someone post the chords to a song does not mean they have the correct chord or position of that chord for the song. There can be a lot of cleanup to do. If it's for practice it will actually help to have to slug through some of those files.
To answer your last question, you can do almost anything you want, it just takes time. Wyndham
The good ones are few and far between. The free ones that is.
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Jed, it sounds like you know little about midi. There's a lot to it and most of it is very confusing to a noob. First, make sure it's a GM or SMF (same thing) file. You can certainly work with non GM files but it's much harder at first. Second, freebies are exactly that, free. Some are very good but most are not. There's plenty of commercial midi sites that sell the songs and those are usually very good. The cost is reasonable, maybe $5-7 each depending on how many you purchase at one time. It can take many hours of surfing around the web to many different free midi sites to find what you want. You can argue it's worth it to you to spend maybe $20 for a 4 or 5 midi file package from one of the big sites or $7 for that one tune and get instant gratification.
I'm hardly an expert but I know enough about midi to take a bad file and rework it. I can't tell you though how many times I've tried to find a particular free song by doing Google searches and finding it on 20 different sites only to find it's the exact same bad file on each site. People just copy and paste thinking they're doing us a favor. People will change the name a little bit or modify the file just enough from one site to another to make the file size a bit different so you can't tell just by looking at a website if it's the same file or not. No way to tell that without downloading it and opening it in RB. Actually, that's not strictly true. You can use a standalone midi synth like the VSC to play midi files from a website just by clicking on them. The problem is that can conflict with your setup in Biab or RB so I won't do that but that's just me. I have a fairly complex set up and don't need yet another thing to keep track of.
Still, many times even a bad midi file will at least have the roadmap of the song correct and if you're lucky the tracks with those hooks you need. If you have that, then even if the rest of the instruments suck, that's ok Biab can replace those.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 01/20/11 02:21 PM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hi Jazzmammal,
Thanks for info. I wouldn't go as far as to say I know little about midi, but thanks for the compliment!!
I understand what you say about free midi sites and wondered if any one could recommend a commercial site? I don't know if they are generic...my interests tend to lie in the blues and rock world.
Cheers,
Dave
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Quote:
I understand what you say about free midi sites and wondered if any one could recommend a commercial site? I don't know if they are generic...my interests tend to lie in the blues and rock world.
If you go up one forum level, then go to the "tips and tricks" forum, about halfway down you will see a discussion about places that have midi files. This is the link (assuming I did this correctly): http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=287873&an=0&page=0#Post287873
I have got a few midi's from here: http://www.hittrax.com.au/
Here is another one (good for if you are a guitar player): http://www.myguitarsolo.com/midis.htm
Blues tracks are pretty easy to build using BIAB, many nice styles are available that fit most blues tunes. I don't think I would ever consider buying a midi track for a blues tune, unless I needed to do one that has a signature riff, such as "Born under a Bad Sign".
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"Born under a Bad Sign".
Did that say "Honest Ed's?"
John Conley
Musica est vita
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BlueAttitude - thanks for the reply and links, have just had a quick look.
Also had a quick listen to some of your music on your web site..I think it is great, but now I now I know I have a long way to go!!
Cheers,
Dave
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Quote:
BlueAttitude - thanks for the reply and links, have just had a quick look.
Also had a quick listen to some of your music on your web site..I think it is great, but now I now I know I have a long way to go!!
Thanks, glad you liked it! But it is not as hard as you might think to do up a nice blues track with BIAB. If blues is your thing I would be happy to help you out if you run into problems.
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A kind of related question - is there any software that can separate out the individual tracks from a music file ie wav or mp3?
Sounds a bit far fetched, but in theory it might be possible to recognise individual instruments and separate them. Any ideas?
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Quote:
A kind of related question - is there any software that can separate out the individual tracks from a music file ie wav or mp3?
Sounds a bit far fetched, but in theory it might be possible to recognise individual instruments and separate them. Any ideas?
There is one program that actually works, it is called Melodyne. Do a websearch for their homepage.
And get your wallet out, it ain't cheap, but it works like a charm.
--Mac
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