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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I use mainly Real tracks. Whilst its true that some instruments lend themselves to the MIDI format, many do not. The problem lies in the nature of MIDi not being able ot capture the instrument. Many instruments have unique characteristics that just dont get translated into the 'note on note off' kind of parameters - a Hendrix solo with all its feedback is a case in point - you could never get this sort of stuff from MIDI - and I have tried.
I once took a live rock number (Rod Stewart Id rather go Blind)and copied every note to MIDI using first class instruments to emulate every sound. I copied every timning nuance, every dynamic. The result? Wooden stale and lifeless.
OK so there are some good MIDI tracks no doubt, and the idea of having 'live input' MIDI is a good one. BUt I would much prefer more REAL TRACKS
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Silvertones,
Re. styles filter there is an issue because the present style filter don't see the users styles or 3rd-party styles or PG special styles (classical). I posted in the whislit forum some weeks ago for this request. So, we need to get an exhaustive tool for selecting the proper styles among ALL the styles present in BIAB styles folder.
Reach for excellence
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Even if there was a preview of parts within a midi style in the style dialog this would be a great help, but I don't know if this would be possible.
Myabe if Peter or the PG team could make a quick comment on this requested feature as there does seem to be a lot of appetite for this among the biab users.
musiclover
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Another program that is similar to BIAB (the name of it rhymes with Whammer) implemented this by taking the style files and separating out all the parts into riff files.
Maybe in the future, BIAB could use separate riff files (the individual instruments), which could be combined into the style (as it currently is implemented) for backward compatibility, but also allow for picking individual instruments (much like RealTracks does it now). This would make mixing and matching MIDI and RTs into a new style much easier, as well. Just a thought.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Bump
Could someone from PG Music chime in here and let us know if this idea could be implemented in BIAB? And then maybe we could move this thread over to the BIAB wishlist.
It would be great to have the same flexibility with midi parts that we now have with
RealTracks.
Thanks,
John
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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Yes, I think this is a great idea. Perhaps a MIDI picker that lists a preselected list of MIDI parts that would work well. And the ability to specify a specific MIDI track if the one you wanted was not listed.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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I am glad to see this back on the forum once again. Like most of you I really like real tracks and use them whenever I can. Like real musicians playing parts live sometimes you get what you want and sometimes you don't. I plan to continue buying future upgrades because BIAB is my primary tool for generating back up tracks. . BIAB can be made much stronger if users can easily find, audition and blend various instruments as needed. There are hundreds/thousands of great parts. I firmly believe that dollar for dollar R&D spent on a sophisticated interface for finding the parts will bring greater interest/sales etc than any other area.
BIAB is not alone with this concern. I sometimes use EZ Drums and with the thousands of patterns finding the right pattern is really dificult. Perhaps a drag and drop tool of each pattern via plugin could be an option to replace or supliment the grid for frequency of a pattern being played. This is more tedious for the casual user but gives the user ultimate control. Hoping to see more MIDI focus along with the RTs from PG.
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The posts from jford and Mr Gannon both cover my wishes perfectly.
But the fun with the midi in BIAB is now part of the process of turning my thoughts into music, although if implimented the complexity of BIAB then would be astounding.
The ability to compose/recompose or even freeze the midi instruments in user chosen, highlighted bars of a song rather than the whole song would also be nice.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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+1.
The MIDI picker would be indeed a great idea. At present time, we have a huge MIDI ressources in elementary styles patterns 'library', but we have not really an efficient tool to pick some patterns from several styles to make another new style.
Reach for excellence
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Has PG considered using the same artist for generating both midi and real tracks? IMHO this could work well at least for piano parts. Many electric pianos sound as good or better than average grands.
Assuming an artist is willing to play on an electric then both audio real tracks and midi tracks could be captured simultaneously. I am sure PG could make very good use of these. There would be distinct advantages of both systems. This might also save money since PG would get two products for the price of one.
As a guiar player I know some of Godin multiacs would work quite well for nylon string sound and possibly more.
Just a thought.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes.
Many of the MIDI styles feature "Live" recording of players on MIDI guitars or keyboards. There are "Live Drums" MIDI styles also, which were created by utilizing the services of a live studio drummer playing on a MIDI drumset.
Some of those players are also featured on some of the RealTracks, but there have been quite a few players added to the pool since the introduction of RealTracks.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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“Live” midi recording is a great idea, however would they have to be done in RB instead of BiaB? The reason I say that is BiaB is still stuck at 120 PPQ and to record some of the playing nuances I would think you would need at least 480 PPQ or preferably 960 PPQ. Right?
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Yes live midi recordings are good but they still have to be paired with a very high quality midi synth, as in very expensive high quality midi synth. Then, the midi controls used for the nuances have to be supported by said synth. This is why the best live midi's were done on specific software using a specific synth. Garritan or Gigasampler are two examples neither of which are GM, they both use their own proprietary midi controls and it takes a good player months to figure out the best way to play live using those midi controls with a specific, again usually very expensive, midi instrument that can use those controls. The midi file sounds awesome when played back through the exact same setup used to record it but if you change the synth or DAW program you lose a bunch of that and you're back to the old lifeless midi file. That's why you can visit websites of these companies and listen to rendered audio demo's of those midi files and they sound mind blowingly good. That means absolutely squat to what can be done with Biab though. In order for Biab to duplicate that you would first have to buy and use the same synth, then the Biab styles would have to be rewritten to handle those proprietary midi controllers and I doubt that's even possible. Then of course somebody says I don't like that synth I want to use this synth and then all the styles would have to be rewritten to handle that one. Good luck with that.
There's no easy answer to this.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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When I make my own MIDI styles, I record everything live, in real time, into a MIDI sequencer. Then I import snippets of what I recorded into BiaB's StyleMaker. The result is MIDI that sounds live as long as you have a decent GM Synth (not the cheap synth chip in your sound card). Check out this mp3 http://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/Sweet_Home_Chicago_M128.mp3 I made this 12 bar blues progression (public domain chord progression) to play "Sweet Home Chicago" with. However I use a 192kbps mp3 for my duo, and this one is ripped at 128 so it doesn't take so much time to download. It can be used for dozens of other blues songs. I recorded it in BiaB using a couple of my Norton Music blues styles (#BluBrk2.sty and #BluChi1.sty). Added some minor horn riffs and let BiaB harmonize them, and then exported to MIDI. I imported it into an old bug-free copy of Master Tracks Pro and added the walking bass line in certain sections. The fact that all the parts of the style (including the drums) were recorded using live into a sequencer before importing into BiaB's StyleMaker meant that very little post editing was necessary. I moved a couple of the drum rolls around and a few minor edits like that, but nothing to change the groove or feel. All the sounds except the bass are General MIDI sounds from the following sound modules, Roland SD90, Roland SC55, Roland MT32, I have other modules, but they were just the sounds I wanted. The bass is from a sampled Faux-Fender-Jazz Bass that I own and sampled in an old 12bit Akai S900 hardware sampler. Of course I could have used a General MIDI fingered bass for this, the bass on my Yamaha VL70m would have worked as well, but I happen to like using the one I sampled. So there is nothing wrong with MIDI -- and nothing wrong with General MIDI. There is something wrong with cheap synth chips though. For the price of all that extra storage and back up storage needed for RTs, you could buy a great General MIDI sound module and enjoy the thousands of non RT styles plus have the editing ability that only MIDI tracks can give you. Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Last edited by Notes Norton; 04/02/11 06:25 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Apprentice
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What are the "decent GM synths" you are referring to ...and what should you expect to pay?
I just loaded the Coyote Forte DXi and was really pleased! I had only heard the Coyote WT up to that point. How much better are the synths you are referring to than the Coyote Forte? I am just becoming aware of these differences...Thanks!
Ken
Blessings!
Ken Hicks
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The Roland/Edriol synths I used in the example are decent hardware synths, but by no means the "top of the line". Decent GM synths with some extra banks.
I don't use software synths, so I can't recommend any of those. I like to mix and match synths and I found that software synths all have different latency amounts which make it very hard to mix the bass from one with the horns from another. Most hardware synths have about 5ms latency (give or take a ms).
Also, I want my computer's CPU to be processing music, and not bogged down with creating each instrument voice from scratch when an external synth can have them all stored in ROM.
Not sayin soft synths are bad, they just aren't my choice.
You gotta admit that mp3 file sounds much better than a computer sound card or the VSC.
Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Apprentice
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Nice work on the 12 bar blues track. Liked the horn lines and bass. What is the easiest way to get this in BIAB format?
I totally agree that quality playback with midi is the primary factor in BIAB midi sound quality. I use EZ drummer, Garritan JBB3 and my RD700 and many of the sounds are IMHO much better than real tracks. The piano sounds for example in some of the early RTs wasn't up to the wonderful sounds in the Rd700. The Garritan Steinway in JBB3 is also very good.
While I would like to see more resolution I don't see this a huge factor. Plug in great sounds and existing BIAB tracks will sound incredibly good! Get a good midi sound source - you won';t regret it.
Glad to see interest in quality midi features for BIAB continues in this forum. I am for continued inmprovement in both RTs and midi to keep BIAB in the forefront of music production.
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Notes, what's your opinion of the KETRON SD2 synth? That's the onlyone I have ever used.
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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dpresly: I posted a page that lets you download the .mp3 and the BiaB format .mgu that I used to make this track. This page also has more complete notes on what I edited after I exported it from BiaB You can find that page here http://www.nortonmusic.com/freemp3.html It might be interesting for you to compare the .mgu with the final product to hear what a little bit of editing can do to take a good BiaB output and make it better. Tchairdjian: I've never used the Ketron, but from reading the posts here and in other forums, it has a very good reputation.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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To Notes:
Thanks. I plan to take your track and record and post an MP3 with my best sound sources so that everyone can hear the difference. I think even you will be pleasantly surpized.
Also like your blues styles better than my own so I plan to purchase these.
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