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Hi all
I am hoping that someone will be able to help me set up BIAB, my Ketron SD2 and my new mixer.
I have copied the "Ketron SD2.Pat" file into the BB folder and have selected in "Opt/Utilities/Choose patch from higher bank."
However, here's where I am having problems. I have a new Mackie ONYX 820i mixer which, through FireWire, is also my interface.
Would anyone be able to tell me how I get my midi to go through the SD2 and then to the mixer, which in turn would go into BIAB?
I know I'm not really giving a whole lot of info here... I really don't know what else I should be putting in here because I am a complete newb with the mixer right now. The mixer's user guide really isn't of much help to me as I'm trying to do this specific setup. If anything else as far as info goes is needed, just ask I'll give it if I can.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
/Bobby
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The info to the SD2 is MIDI, so that uses the MIDI out settings. Select that MIDI out device (however you are connecting the SD2 to MIDI from the computer)in BiaB Prefs.
Then the SD2, when it gets the MIDI message will generate sound. That sound goes to the mixer and then to BiaB as *audio*. So in the audio settings you would select the mixer as the input. Then you can hear and record the sd2.
MIDI goes out of computer to synth, audio comes back into computer from synth.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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The SD2 connects to the PC via midi. I assume it comes with either a Midi or USB Cable to connect with? How about a midi driver as well? I don't have the SD2 here, sorry.
Once you have it connected correctly and the driver installed, open Biab and go to Opt/Pref/Midi Driver. Select SD2 in the midi out and also set your "soundcard" (same menu in Biab)to one of the Edirol SD selection.
Connect your headphones to the headphone jack and see if you can NOW hear playback thru the SD2 while Biab plays a song with midi instruments. If you can hear playback the SD2 is connected and the driver is working correctly.
I assume the Mackie connects to the PC? I am not familiar with Firewire connections. You may not need the Firewire if you are simply using the mixer for playback only.
You would run the line out of the SD2 into either channel 3 & 4 or probably the "tape in" input on the mixer. The tape in might require you to use a "control room" button on the mixer as well to "send" it to the main outs/headphone jack etc . . .
You may need to have to buy a cable for the SD2 to 3 & 4 set up, otherwise try the tape in routing.
One last thing: To select a "higher bank" midi patch in Biab, click the (+) button to the right of "gm2". Then go to "open patch" button and click that. Make sure BB is selected at top of next menu and scroll to SD2 patch (located near the bottom) and select it. It will automagically generate your SD2 higher bank patches. Then click the "update" button before closing that menu and you will be set.
Trax
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Hi again...
Thanks for the replies... very much appreciated.
That being said, I have followed your suggestions to the letter, without results.
However... I think I may know where the problem is.
The Mackie 820i is a mixer that is also an interface, not unlike a USB interface. However, the Mackie connects to the computer via FireWire instead of USB. I'm kind of thinking now that the reason my SD2 doesn't show up in BIAB, RB, and even Sonar is because of the FireWire instead of USB connection. Perhaps the SD2 is only geared for USB? If so, this would be a real shame.
I should point out that the Mackie works very well with recording audio tracks in Sonar. But the SD2 just doesn't show up. I'm starting to wonder if I am right about the Mackie's FireWire connection instead of USB, would a "fix" for this be around somewhere? I'm hoping so.
/Bobby
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The Ketron SD2 has no USB connect of its own. The Device uses standard MIDI round connection. You must have some other mfr's USB MIDI device in the MIDI signal chain if you are hooked up to your computer proerly. The MIDI Out of the SD-2 is the only MIDI data cable needed and inside any host program that can use a MIDI device that will be identified as itself, or if it is a Class Compliant USB-to-MIDI device, which means that the device does not require installation of specific drivers, it will likely be identified by Widows as "USB Audio Device" or something similar.
That one MIDI data connection will not allow you to hear the output of the SD2, however. For that you must also hook up a pair of Audio cables, L & R channels, to the RCA jacks on the Ketron and the other ends to the Line Inputs of your sound card or sound device. Then you must also select the Line Input as the active input device on your sound device, as well as selecting that particular sound device in the Audio section of your host program. This would be your mixer.
I use both Firewire and USB devices at the same time and have never encountered it being an "either or" situation. The only trouble one may have along those lines would be if they were experiencing audio dropouts because the Firewire and USB ports happened to share an IRQ inside their machine. Since you have no audio at all, I doubt it would be that. This sounds like a routing assignment and/or hookup problem at present time.
--Mac
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Hi again…
Mac… thanks so much for the comeback. It opened my eyes to something.
Um… forgive me for this… it’s been a long time since I have been able to sit with my music.
When you mentioned that the SD2 had to be connected to the computer a flash went off. The way I had it set up was I only had the RCA out jacks on the SD2 connected to the mixer… the SD2 wasn’t connected to the computer. Doh!!!
And so I got out my M-Audio USB Midisport, connected it up and had the SD2 outputs going into the Mackie. Of course there was no surprise when I got sound.
I guess I was assuming that I would be able to use the SD2 directly into the Mackie, as it is an “audio interface” via FireWire. I guess "audio" would be the key word here. And I am really unable to see a way of getting around this with MIDI unless there is some kind of an adapter out there. (Maybe there IS???)
I also have to see if there is a way to be able to control my audio – vocals, guitar – with the Mackie. Results from a quick test showed me that the input volume can only be controlled in RealBand or Sonar. It doesn’t seem to matter what level I use on the Mackie, it has no effect on the levels in the software. But I’d have to think that there is in fact some way of achieving this. The mixer has a beautiful EQ on board that I would love to be able to use.
Anyway… I knew before I got the mixer that there would be a learning curve involved and so I’m going to have to be patient… and not expect to have it all figured out in a couple of hours. What makes it even harder, though, is the fact that I have no experience in using equipment like this. There's going to be a lot of "hitting and missing" as I go along.
Thanks again for your help. Do you see why I love this place?!?
/Bobby
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You need to run audio cables from the sd2 into the inputs of your mixer. What happens when the MIDI signal is sent into sd2 it is sent out as audio. There is a L and R output on the sd2, run cables from there to 2 inputs on your mixer, then you can record the signal. If your mixer allows for transferring files from computer to board you can send them to separate tracks. If you use only the out capabilities of the sd2, you will have to mute each individual track and record in real time, if you want separate tracks. . I hope this helps.
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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Hi and thanks for the reply...
I guess I was a little bit ahead of your post when you mentioned that I would have to mute each individual track and record in real time. Once I got my brain to settle down and think things out more slowly and clearly, I realized that there are no MIDI inputs on the mixer. Therefore I have to use a USB MIDI interface between the SD2 and the computer. I haven't found an adapter that would allow me to route the SD2 into the mixer.
I haven't had a lot of time to sit with my new stuff this past week... but the weekend is almost here!!!
/Bobby
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Can you explain your recording process? You should not need to run the sd2 into your mixer unless you are going to record into an external recorder. The only need for a mixer with Biab is if you want to record into your computer with a mic or guitar etc. When you select the sd2 under midi devices biab will play it's sounds. If you are recording to an external source then you can use 2-1/4" cables from the audio out of the sd2 into the input of your recording device. If you need more help send me a private message and I will try to walk you through setting up. I hope this helps!
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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I've posted Bob's Mantra several times here over the last 7 years or so. Get the incense going along with the Sitar music. Ready?
"Audio is not Midi, Midi is not Audio" Ommmmmmm.
Midi is nothing but digital computer commands that tell a midi device (synth) what to do, it is not sound by itself. The midi synth can be hardware or software. In this case that would be your hardware SD2. The midi synth makes the sound (audio). Now you have to route the audio from the source (SD2) just like any other audio be it your Home Theater setup, your guitar amp and/or mics to the PA on a gig, whatever. If you want to record the sound in your computer then the audio from the SD2 goes into your PC interface or soundcard and the monitor out from the soundcard goes to your studio monitors. The interface could be your Mackie mixer or a built in soundcard. If you don't need to record it, the SD2 audio can go straight to your studio monitors or your Mackie, your choice.
Keep the midi and audio separate in your head and you'll have it.
Bob.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I am starting to come around and see what is possible and what is not possible in this matter. As stated, I'm a complete newbie at what I'm trying to do with my new equipment. I'm starting to see that what was in my head when I first got the mixer is not the way it really works in the real world.
Fortunatley I am getting help here in the forum that is straighting me out on what to do. I'm away for the weekend but will be back at it come Monday, practicing what I've been told to do and I will keep the results posted.
/Bobby
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I'm confused  First - "I haven't had a lot of time to sit with my new stuff this past week... but the weekend is almost here!!!" ... then ... "I'm away for the weekend but will be back at it come Monday, practicing what I've been told to do ..."
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Hi Rhav..
I can see where your confusion may have come from. I was reminded by my better half that we were going on an overnight trip to Ottawa this past weekend... after I made my post about being able to sit with my music this weekend.
Sorry for the contradiction...
/Bobby
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I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Bobby9999... I use a KETRON SD2 and a Mixer too.
My Mixer has neither a USB nor a Firewire Connection to the PC, but I use a TASCAM audio interface... Since your Mixer has a Firewire buit-in Audio Interface, obviously you wouldn't need the TASCAM-like device.
However, you need a Midi interface. I use an inexpensive USB/Midi cable ($39), or Roland has one too UM-2G ($49)... All you have to do is first connect the SD2 to the PC using this midi interface... In BIAB, you won't see SD2 in the Midi Driver/Setup under Opts. You'll only see the name of the Midi Interface (i.e. UM-2G) or whatever you end up using.
So the midi signal will be sent form the BIAB to the ketron, first. Once the KETRON processes the Midi instructions, it will generate the audio/WAV signal, which is then sent to your Mixer via RCA Cables (I use a Y adapter Cable, RCA to Mono 1/4" jack, and plug it in one of the Line-in Channels.)
The other audio sounds coming from the BIAB (if you have RealDrums, Realtracks, etc mixed with Midi) will come to the Mixer via your Firewire connection.
If you just want to hear the music, and if you have your speakers connected to your Mixer, you'll hear the combined mixed sound come out of the speakers...
If you want to record, it's a bit different matter... you don't want to create feedback by looping the sounds already recorded (or already being generated on your PC, such as Realtracks) to be sent back and be re-recorded on your PC. You only want to send to your PC, only new Audio... i.e. audio created by the ketron, maybe your MIC, or guitar you are playing... etc.)
To do that, I hope your Mixer has a Sub Channel...
Only send the sounds you want to record to the Sub Channel, and then "send" the sub channel to the PC via the Firewire... [You may want to read in the manual how to do this... I haven't used a combo Mixer/Audio device... but it should be a matter of pressing the right buttons...] In my case, I take the output from the back of the mixer where it says Alt3-4 and plug it into my TASCAM Line In... and that's the only thing that goes back to the PC...
On BIAB you only have one track to record. In RealBand, you have 48! Each time you record an instrument, you may have to do it in real-time.... one track at a time....
Good Luck.
2008 Gibson ES-339 Custom & 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Fender SCXD Amp
BIAB/RB 2015 UltraPAK + Ketron SD2
Windows 7/64 Intel i5 3550 PC, Tascam USB144MKII
Behringer X1204 Mixer
Bose Companion 3 and/or L1 II w/T1 + SM58 MIC
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Hi Dick
Thanks ever so much for the great comeback!!! Very much appreciated.
I've got your post printed out and will study it more closely - when I get enough time to do so.
This working in the daytime really sucks. I've been out before 6:00 and not getting home until 8:00 or there after in the evening every day this week. Seems I'm living that old saying... "eat, sleep and work."
I'll let you know how it goes.
/Bobby
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