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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2004
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For example, I'm using JAZFRED Style and in two bars I entered Bb7, Bb7, A7, A7 | Ab7, Ab7, G7, G7 ... a total of two chord changes per measure with each bass tone repeated. In 4/4 with four bass notes per measure I expect to hear Bb, Bb, A, A, Ab, Ab, G, G.
I expect to hear a descending bass line with each bass tone repeated ... that's not what I get. If I gave those two measures to any bass player he would play a descending bass line with each bass note repeated.
What do I not understand ... and how can I achieve what I want?
Thanks, DH
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Journeyman
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Write the exact part you want on a midi track. The Real Tracks will use their variations. I just built a 2 bar tune w/ 3 repeats using your chords and the _JAZFRED style, and the bass follows the chords (with some embellishment) and each time through plays something slightly different. "He" may not play the ROOT note each time, but this is a Jazz style.
Try a bass RT with the 'simpler' option. Also try using a 'pop' bass RT (#536) as opposed to a jazz guy ?
If none of these guys play what you're expecting to hear, then midi away !
Last edited by MitchC; 12/28/11 03:48 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
For example, I'm using JAZFRED Style
Thought I had everything, but I don't have JAZFRED?? Is this a midi style?
Quote:
What do I not understand ...
First thing to understand, you can not easily get exact note-for-note arrangements in BIAB. It will play an accompaniment but not necessarily the exact notes you may want. Are you working with Midi or RT bass? RT bass will only play what is recorded and does not follow any Style file.
Quote:
and how can I achieve what I want?
To get a exact arrangement in BIAB you can create the bass line (either by manual notation entry or play it from your keyboard) or edit the midi content in the notation window. Then be sure to freeze the track.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 113
Apprentice
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OP
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The bass in this style is a 'Real' bass ... and I'm guessing that's the issue.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
The bass in this style is a 'Real' bass ... and I'm guessing that's the issue.
You can generate and regenerate RT's to try to get a different run or you can substitute a midi bass and edit as necessary.
Now there are also the new Simple and Real Simple bass tracks. I think these are also in RT versions (not sure right now), and these may play a simple root note over each chord.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Seriously, try a bass, POP real track #536 (swing). I use the pop guys a lot in jazz tunes when the jazz bass guy just gets too crazy for my tastes.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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-------------------- Dave Horne - The Netherlands http://members.home.nl/davehorne/ Enjoyed your info and playing...  I guess I see why you are picky about the bass player. Guys with a lot of music experience tend to know exactly what they want. Dealing with an application like BIAB ( or any computer generated accompaniment ) tends to require some flexibility - or a large investment in time, otherwise it can be frustrating. Good luck,
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Jazzmandan, thanks for the comment but for my money, a lot of musical experience or not, when you enter Bb, Bb, A, A | Ab, Ab, G, G you should expect to hear just that.
I should not have to jump though hoops to have a very simple bass line. Now I now realize this is all to do with Real Tracks but what's the point of entering in specific chords per beat if your instructions are ignored?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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I just redid your 'tune' using 1 beat for each bar (using the bar settings). The bass now plays single notes on every beat, but the rest of the band sounds like...well...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Just wrote the midi bass part (simple descending line) then applied the Garritan Upright Bass via VST plugin. Sounds great and it's 'just what I wanted'.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I should not have to jump though hoops to have a very simple bass line.
This has been a much discussed topic in the past, which is why PG came up with these "simple" and "very simple" options:
Give them a try and let us know.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Just wrote the midi bass part (simple descending line) then applied the Garritan Upright Bass via VST plugin. Sounds great and it's 'just what I wanted'.
Sounds cool Mitch - when you want those specific notes, midi ( and don't forget to freeze) is the only way to go.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Exactly...the point of all this is to flush out all possible options, and sometimes, midi is the answer.
As long as we're exhuasting options... a final one (I think?) is to have the bass part recorded by a real, live guy sitting right there in the room with you.
Did we leave any option off the table ?
Last edited by MitchC; 12/28/11 05:20 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Journeyman
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Yes... one more option...
Use the Real Track for the majority of your tune (if it works) and for this passage of descending chords, do midi for JUST THAT SECTION. There's a video by PG demonstrating this but I don't have a link handy.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Tuba.
The bigger the better.
I can play the oneba pretty well.
The halfba is right out.
There ought to be a sticky on the software.
"Warning, this software is to play along with you." It does not read minds, does not understand that "Tweets Toolman" played that same chord change using descending minor diminished thirds on even days and another way on odd days.
Really for many they need to learn a proper notation program, where you hear what you see. Then you can bring the lick of your dreams into either the soloist track or the melody track and freeze it. Of course learning Realband and doing it there by hand is an option. I just don't understand the angst.
Band in a Box does what the software guys told it to do. What we need is the "We read your mind" module, but it's only available on apple ...never mind.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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One more... I don't play bass, but for a current project I played my guitar and inserted a Bass Effect on teh track with GuitarRig3 to give it that thump. It sounded like a Real Bass.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Yep, guitar with an octave pedal...
And double YEP... we need PARTS ON DEMAND dang it !!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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This comes up all the time Dave. Experienced pro level players like us know exactly what a certain part should sound like. The problem is Biab is a generic backing tracks generator that works off of styles. It's the style that controls these things. How many styles would it take to satisfy all of us? Somebody else who's equally experienced as us wants that bass line to be a bit different to be a counterpoint to whatever melody they're using or whatever. Multiply that by oh, I don't know, several million players and then what do we wind up with?
The styles are user configurable. You can change an existing style, create a hybrid style using several existing styles or of course, write your own style from scratch. This is for midi styles only. Now for the Real Tracks.
The RT's are a whole different animal. Neil Swainson sat down in a recording studio and laid down tons of bass tracks. You were not in the room with him, he has no idea what you may want out of any particular bass track he recorded. He's doing a generic bass track according the whatever style PG hired him to play. I'm not sure but I think he played a bunch of standard chord changes using different keys and tempos with the idea that a lot of it would fit with what the users would want for that style. If it's a jazz swing at a tempo of 140, what type of swing would you ask him to record if it was you? The thing about RT's is the program cannot chop them down to the single note level. I believe one bar is as far as it goes so whatever was played in one bar is what you have to work with. You can get single note basses out of an RT by using slash chords a lot of the time but not all of the time. If one particular note was not recorded then there's nothing for the program to put in that exact spot. There's software synths/samplers that do that already. Single note samples triggered by midi. The key word there is midi. RT's are prerecorded audio files just like you listening to a CD. What you hear is what you get. PG tries to create RT's that will appeal to the greatest number of people they can but of course they're not going to please everybody but they've been fine tuning the RT's for several years now and they're getting better at it. Just remember one word: Generic. You're going to get a very high quality audio recording of a bass playing a generic swing style or bossa or whatever it is but not exact song specific stuff. At least not yet, stay tuned.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
For example, I'm using JAZFRED Style and in two bars I entered Bb7, Bb7, A7, A7 | Ab7, Ab7, G7, G7 ... a total of two chord changes per measure with each bass tone repeated. In 4/4 with four bass notes per measure I expect to hear Bb, Bb, A, A, Ab, Ab, G, G.
I expect to hear a descending bass line with each bass tone repeated ... that's not what I get. If I gave those two measures to any bass player he would play a descending bass line with each bass note repeated.
What do I not understand ... and how can I achieve what I want?
Thanks, DH
Sometimes I use Slash chords to force the bass to play the root under each chord no matter what.
This works better with some styles than others, and, of course, makes for a pretty nonstandard looking printed chart, easily handled by removing the slash and letter before printouts are made.
So your Bb7, Bb7, A7, A7 | Ab7, Ab7, G7, G7
becomes
Bb7/Bb, Bb7/Bb, A7/A, A7/A | Ab7/Ab, Ab7/Ab, G7/G, G7/G
Looks funky, but often results in hering what I need to hear at the time.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Since I play piano, I've been entering specific bass lines just the way Mac explained. Works out well. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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