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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Hi everyone. I've been trying to find out for a while now what genre of drums you sometimes hear added to a track played along with real drums (not RealDrums in BIAB)? In the song below, early on in the song you will hear a subtle drum rythm, probably a loop added but what type of drum loops are they and where can I get them? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtwIT8JjddM
Last edited by PaulH; 12/19/13 08:10 AM.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: May 2000
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Bing, "Cajon"
And I doubt those are loops on that particular recording, likely a live player.
The Cajon is a wonderful thing to have in the home studio.
As well as many other hand percussion instruments, various tambourines, triangles, finger cymbals, larger cymbals, both sticks and soft mallets, any of the handheld Latin Percussion instruments, bell trees, cowbells, Kalimbas, Bongos, etc. etc.
Of course, Loops of just about all of 'em are also available, too.
Studying the sound of percussion instruments is where this really starts, one can't pick and choose properly without a knowledge of them and recorded examples showing how they are best put to use.
--Mac
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Recording a Cajon can be a bit of a challenge in the typical home studio space - I speak from personal experience on this.
Room acoustics can be a boon or a major frustration here. Where the cajon is in the room, where the hole is pointing and where you place a mic (try to keep it simple with a single mic at first) really needs either:
1. two people, one to play and one to crawl around the room listening for where the boom and crack can be picked up at one location.
2. 1 person, but with isolating earphones and earmuffs over top of the earphones that can also rove a microphone and listen while playing. I know where you can get great isolating earphones (PM me) and I recommend the 3M X5A earmuffs for this purpose - this allows you to hear what the mic hears with minimal sound transmission from the room through the muffs and phones.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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BTW, Paul, we do this song both with a full rock band, as well as a stripped down acoustic number where the percussionist has only a Djembe and tambourine available. We use one of those little Audio Technical mics that are normally flown over a choir, mounted down near the floor down by the bottom of the Djembe. The player lifts the Djembe when those big kick sounds are desired on the breaks. I will differ with Mac in that I think that this is just a percussion loop that rolls in the background rather than a live cajon player, and it fades out for most of the song. The percussion that is going in the background, to my ear, lacks the 'crack' of most cajon sounds. All of Mac's other statements about the cajon, however, I agree with. Take note that a bunch of the 1/8th note chugging going on in this particular example is the high end of acoustic guitar and mandolin strumming. You can get most of the feel for this song without a percussion loop or cajon simply by high pass filtering (quite high, 1500 Hz and above by my guess) either chorded or even just palm muted acoustic guitar strumming. This version of the song is the local radio cut for here in Colorado Springs. I have the CD and it doesn't have the mandolin on it There are many places to get percussion loops for free or for purchase. For free, I'll point you to the guy who hosts my website: http://rekkerd.org/loops/ He runs worship at his church in the Netherlands. If you are looking to drop some money on a Cajon (seems like you have a pile of play money right now!), a co-worker of mine is an endorsee of Kopf Percussion cajons - I've seen what he plays for them and it's very impressive compared to my Meinl cajon. Might be too pricey to ship internationally. I used to own a Pearl - which I found at a local thrift shop for $35 - and sold it for the same to a struggling worship leader here in town. If you to shop for a cajon, get one with tunable snares and learn how to tighten/loosen the snares. I tell you what - it's been a long time since I've done a collaboration with anyone overseas - I love this song, and I would be honored to give you a hand with some of the parts including acoustic and cajon playing/recording. Send me a PM if you are interested. -Scott
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 420
Journeyman
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Thanks guys. Never thought about the cajon? Thanks for your offer Scott. I'm not thinking of doing this song, I just posted it up to show what I was trying to find? I have been on a deep spending spree since BIAB 2014 came out - but have yet to buy BIAB! I wouldnt agree that I have a ton of money to spend, more like borrow from paul to pay peter  I've been disappointed with my vocals so I have spent money to improve on it - new mic, pop shiled, vocal filter, Mic Mechanic, and now bought EZdrummer, Latin percussion, EZmix 2, EZkeys Essential Pianos. Next may be BIAB upgrade but I have my reservations? Last on my list is a set of monitors but that will have to wait due to lack of funds and space. Scott, I'll keep you in mind for some help if you don't mind. I have a bunch of stuff to learn and try out at the moment as I navigate through producing some songs I wrote some 20 years ago. Problem with me is I don't know when to stop tweaking! But I may very well take you up on the offer in some way. Paul
Last edited by PaulH; 12/20/13 09:07 AM.
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Paul, it's 'Scott' for future reference. That's quite a list of stuff. I wouldn't be able to keep track of all the 'new'.
-Scott
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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I will differ with Mac in that I think that this is just a percussion loop that rolls in the background rather than a live cajon player, and it fades out for most of the song. The percussion that is going in the background, to my ear, lacks the 'crack' of most cajon sounds.
And that very fact was the giveaway. The purchased Loops emphasize the Cracks in just about every sample, getting the performance we have here may be loops, but if so, the lack of the Cracks plus the long length with differing slaps in each iteration indicates otherwise to my ears. So I think they likely recorded a live player at some point, directed not to crack or deciding personally not to, in order to fit the tracks. And we don't know if the cajon player played actually just for the intro or played all the way thru and the rest happened between Producer, Artist and Mix Engineer to get what we hear on the finished production. Meaning there may even be some EQ, Compression and certainly Gain Staging applied to that track. But because Loops are typically made by making pcm digital recordings of live players anyway, the only definitive answer would have to come from someone on the inside of the production. --Mac
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...EZdrummer, Latin percussion, ... If you don't have a cajon yet, I'd highly recommend getting one. It's a ton of fun to play, and works well as a substitute for a drum. My kids play one in their choir along with a ride cymbal, and use brushes and Blastix for variety. You can get a kick, snare and sidestick sound out of it. If you're on a budget (who isn't?), Meinl has a do-it-yourself cajon for $60. You mentioned you've got the Toontrack Latin Percussion EZX, so you've already got a sampled cajon to play with. However, that's the "classic" cajon without snares.
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