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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3 |
Hi , i m about to order the UltraPlusPak Audiophile for Mac . It comes loaded on a USB drive. I always prefered to work with audio installed on a Firewire which is supposed to deliver higher speed , faster access and therefore better performances.
Do the owners of that Audiophile Pak for Mac ever complained about slow access or any problem due to the use of that USB drive.?
Maybe people use that drive as a back up and transfer the files and data on a Firewire drive for pro use ?
Any feedback will be appreciated since i m holding my VIsa card in my hand
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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I don't find any noticeable difference in the case of Band in a Box, USB2.0 is plenty fast enough.
Consider that BIAB does not multitrack in the usual sense of the word, there is a single stereo output going on there.
Couple that with the fact that BIAB does not stream from drive, it accesses the drive to load things, the RealTracks being the thing that takes the longest to do, but the drive throughput is only a small part of the problem here, it isn't streaming so Sustained Transfer Rate doesn't even come into play here, the Realtrack time is more about processing which parts of the root RT file to place where in your song than about streaming. That can be accomplished with the Burst Rate of USB 2.0 quite easily. Once the song is generated, the playback you hear is actually being derived from a Temp storage on your internal hard drive anyway.
Loading times of RealTracks don't seem to be affected all that much differently on the FireWire drive as vs the USB either. (I copied my USB drive's BB contents to a FireWire at one point just to see.) Now I just use the original USB drive that PGMusic sent me.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3 |
Thanx a lot Mac. I read your posts on the forum, quite interesting. Now i m just waiting to know the shipping delay and cost (i m in Europe) before using plastic :-)
(i asked the PG support for that and i ll get an reply soon i hope)
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 812
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Posts: 812 |
Hi sam7,
If you want real speed, you might want to check into the new Solid State Hard drives. They come in many flavors (USB, Firewire, PCMCIA) and both the read and write speeds are far above the fastest Firewire drives. There is no spinning platter, so the data has a much longer and more secure lifespan, there is much less heat also.
The downside is the cost, right now they are a tad pricey. You can check both tigerdirect and newegg, they both have many models available. I'm waiting for 3 things right now>
1. The cost to come down
2. A portable enclosure without need of a power supply
3. Making sure that the drive doesn't suffer from the Windows format problem (for example, a 500 GB drive formatted for Windows loses almost 90 GB. Frustrating!)
Good luck, hope this helps,
Ed
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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There is indeed a failure mode with solid state drive.
It is catastrophic.
And it is instantaneous.
That said, it is as minimized as can be, but it exists. Because a problem with power can take the thing out in a few nanoseconds. Not. Pretty. Unlike a crashed hard drive, there is no clean room or data recovery solution should it happen.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,992
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likkle birdies are floating around saying usb could get vewy interesting
in the next few years allied with improved pen drive wead/wite performance n
larger storage sizes..
oops likkle birdie just dropped a doodoo on my head for telling..
but mebe i'll be wrong n people can throw egg at me..lol.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 166
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 166 |
Ed, could you enlighten me on this?
If a drive is connected to the Mac over USB (or FireWire), is this connection not the bottleneck? Meaning that no matter how fast the drive is it is always faster then the connection UNLESS it is connected over the bus (like an internal drive)?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,105
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I drive a PC and know nothing about Mac so if I'm volunteering worthless information here please excuse my ignorance of the operating system and the file formats involved. For what its worth, I opened up the usb enclosure on my 2009.5 Audiophile last month because the fans started making a loud screaching noise. I couldn't fix that problem but found that the drive inside was a 3.5 inch SATA, so I just pulled it out and installed it in an eSATA enclousre that I had laying around, or I could have installed it in an empty bay in my desktop.
We can debate USB and Fireware until the cows come home but right now neither approach the transfer speeds of SATA. You might want to consider that option.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,2 Raven Mti
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Well, since the iNTEL Macs, we no longer enjoy the good old SCSI drive interface, it is now the same as Windows.
BUT -- USB 2.0 can do Burst speeds that rival FireWire. Both can do Bursts that rival the internal connections, but with Audio that streams direct to or from disk, the Burst spec can be meaningless for us, what we need to know really is the specification that most manufacturers won't publish and that is the STR or the Sustained Transfer Rate of the drive.
Now that I've said all that, I don't think it really applies in the case of BiaB because it seems that the drive is only accessed when building the RealTracks/RealDrums for the song and that is not a direct disk stream situation such as we want when multitracking many simultaneous channels of Audio into and out of the computer at the same time.
That means that the Burst spec is likely what is applying anyway.
That said, the internal connection methods are always going to be a better way to go if you can go that way. At this point in time, anyway.
But I wouldn't spend too much of the time and money resources chasing after faster loading times. Technology marches on and if the past is any indication, some day in the not too distant future something will come out that will better handle large file situations like these. You can almost feel it. But the larger consumer market of digital video is certainly driving the developments.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,105
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The point that I was really trying to make that may have gotten lost within some of my other commentary is that unlike some other usb drive versions of BIAB that are contained on a laptop size hard drive, the 2009.5 audiophile version comes on a 3.5 inch SATA drive that is readily placed in an eSATA enclosure or an empty internal bay on a desktop.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,2 Raven Mti
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Quote:
The point that I was really trying to make that may have gotten lost within some of my other commentary is that unlike some other usb drive versions of BIAB that are contained on a laptop size hard drive, the 2009.5 audiophile version comes on a 3.5 inch SATA drive that is readily placed in an eSATA enclosure or an empty internal bay on a desktop.
Not a problem to connect the laptop SATA drive to the desktop if you've picked out the right adaptor.
Here's one, there are others that are less expensive, too!
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3
Newbie
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OP
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I started this topic before buying the 1T USB drive Pak for Mac. I must thank all the people who helped with their contribution. Afer having read a few posts I bought the Pak through the Internet from PG , it all worked perfectly, got the parcel within 48 hours (from Canada to Europe) and it works great. I confirm those drive are Hornettek Hover HDD SATA , there are 2 models , the one i got is the USB, there s also a SSC Model (eSATA/USB) but it s not the one that comes standard when shipping from PG.
I confirm that installation is a breeze (Mac Intel 2x2.66 Dual Xeon, 5GB) , and it works as expected.
The soft is brilliant , i hadn t used BIAB since the early MIDI versions, the concept was already here but now;..wow !!!! brilliant !!!
Thanx again to all , even if now i got the answers to my initial post i continue reading the posts , very interesting because it s now about larger issues with HD that apply to all HD users, not only PG original package.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Quote:
But I wouldn't spend too much of the time and money resources chasing after faster loading times. Technology marches on and if the past is any indication, some day in the not too distant future something will come out that will better handle large file situations like these. You can almost feel it. But the larger consumer market of digital video is certainly driving the developments.
--Mac
Well, the march of technology continues relentlessly on.
When I typed the above we were in beta testing the new Windows BiaB2010 and I knew it would feature MUCH FASTER REALTRACKS LOADING TIMES.
On average, the loading time is now around 7 secs on my long in the tooth windows machine here.
If there is a RealTracks Soloist involved, it does still take a bit longer, I guess for the computing processing more than the disk part, though.
And I'm thinking that if PGMusic could speed it up that much for the PC environment, the future of Macintosh BiaB RealTracks loading times is very bright indeed.
Stay tuned.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 812
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Hi,
I just learned something that I thought was pretty amazing. I was looking at buying a new DA interface. I always considered firewire, because I thought the transfer rate, throughput and sonics would be better. BUT.....I stand corrected>
RME has a new USB 2 interface and they explained that Firewire has a built in latency of 6ms, whereas USB 2 high speed with AC power (No Buss power) has latency of 2-4ms. Not a huge change, but better than firewire. This new device looks amazing and the first USB interface I have seriously considered. RME is expensive, but it's just about the best, unless your pockets allow you to buy a Lynx Aurora, Metric Halo ULN 2, or Apogee Ensemble, all above $2,000. The RME UC is about $1,300 but the converters and Mic Pres and drivers/cuemix are supposed to be amazing.
Ed
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Don't think if a 2mS difference is really worth being the sole criteria for picking one over the other, though.
There are other inputs to this problem that should also be considered carefully when choosing a sound device.
Bandwidth, for one. If you are only ever considering streaming in one stereo track at a time, USB can do that. But if you need multitrack multiple channel streaming, FireWire may still represent the better choice due to its Sustained Transfer Rate.
Also consider carefully your use of higher bitrates here, too, if that is of importance to you.
--Mac
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Holiday Weekend Hours
Our Customer Service hours this weekend are as follows:
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Thank you!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
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Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
Update to RealBand® 2025 Build 5 Windows Today!
Already using RealBand® 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 5 now from our Support Page to ensure you have the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
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www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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