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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Hi gang,
New user here. I'm a songwriter and while im excited about BIAB's potential, I'm a bit leery about
always using canned arrangements. You know, not all songs are follow the leader, every instrument can have it's own hook/melody to play, or needs to play an arrangement that is supportive of the main instrument hooks.
So, my attention came to the fact that you can edit in Midi, and that would trigger the real band tracks, giving it the real feel. So is this to say, that I could use a midi guitar converter, play a bass line for example, save it as midi, and then somehow get it into the BIAB, so that instead of playing the canned pattern it will play what I played in Midi?
And then would the other instruments adjust to
my bass line that I entered in Midi..ie. piano, organ, sax...
Im new to this and Im trying to get a broad picture of the limitations and how close I can get to getting BIAB to play what I want it to play.
Appreciate any input, thanks.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
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Hello,
A few general points...
What a particular RealTracks instrument plays in your song is mainly determined by the chords you enter into the chordsheet, and whether you enter pushes, shots, or holds. Some instruments will display notation in MIDI, however this is a transcription of the playing. You can't edit MIDI parts to change a RealTracks part. The RealTracks don't have a 'canned' sound and you'll get a different arrangement each time you press play.
You can mix both RealTracks and MIDI tracks in your songs, and you *can* edit the MIDI tracks as much as you want. This could be a MIDI track that is part of a style (.STY), or you can record your own tracks.
You can record your own tracks directly in Band-in-a-Box, although RealBand offers more flexibility for this in general. You can import MIDI files into Band-in-a-Box or RealBand. RealBand also allows you to re-generate specific regions of a RealTrack.
This is a broad topic, and I'm sure others will want to add comments.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Hi gang,
New user here. I'm a songwriter and while im excited about BIAB's potential, I'm a bit leery about
always using canned arrangements. You know, not all songs are follow the leader, every instrument can have it's own hook/melody to play, or needs to play an arrangement that is supportive of the main instrument hooks.
So, my attention came to the fact that you can edit in Midi, and that would trigger the real band tracks, giving it the real feel. So is this to say, that I could use a midi guitar converter, play a bass line for example, save it as midi, and then somehow get it into the BIAB, so that instead of playing the canned pattern it will play what I played in Midi?
Yes, but not with Real Tracks. A midi track can only trigger a midi synth not an RT. The RT/RD's are prerecorded audio files that Biab can chop up according to your chords. That's very cool, much better than audio loops but like audio loops, you have no control over individual notes. What most of us do is first use Real Band, not Biab. RB gives you 48 tracks to work with. You could start with a good midi file you may have found on the internet, or create the midi tracks yourself like you described, modify it to your liking, then start adding RT's and RD's to it on separate tracks. RB allows you to create a new instrument part by picking a Biab style and either having it create a midi part or a RT part. You can do this on separate tracks as much as you want. By mixing a RT with a good midi part that has all the song specific hooks and things you can wind up with a good overall sound. Having said that, I do some gigs as a trio that require solid covers of classic songs and we will just use a good midi file played through my Korg PA1XPro keyboard. My Korg has outstanding sound quality and I could care less about trying to create one of those tunes using Real Tracks. I love the sound of the RT's and I'm good enough with these programs to do it but in a live casino setting with all the bling/boing sounds flying around that extra sound quality would be completely lost anyway.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Thanks Guys. Ok I thought you could make chnges to real band. Like in Ez drummer for example, those are real clips too, but you can cut and paste, edit, or change it to midi, edit it, then bring it back to ezdrummer again. I suppose drums are a bit easier to do that with.
I tell ya, if Biab and Realband ever get to the point where they can do that, they could charge whatever they wanted!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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There are plenty of programs that force the user to have to tediously spend time assembling loops manually, changing things or editing manually, etc.
Band in a Box and RealBand are automated.
The ability to create the entire drum part with one mouse click is awesome.
You have to actually get and use the programs awhile to get through a learning curve as to what can be done. For example, the one-click use of Part Markers that force Drum Fills in the previous measure is pure genius and may well obviate the whole thing you are asking about anyway. In all this time I have never had anyone tell me that a song needs a certain drum thang here or there to make it "better". But I have had a few people ask who the drummer was. More than one of those people to ask that question are very skilled drummers...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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lol spoken like a true BIAB supporter. Well, Im not necessarily complaining about what biab offers, just want to see where my limitations are.
I take it you are a jazz or blues player where the need for inidividualism in backing arrangements isnt that great, so long as the music follows and sounds good.
But imagin Phil Collins' "in the air tonight" without that distinct huge drum fill before it goes into the ending?
Imagine any led zepplin song where the guitar riffs are generated by BIAB?
Imagine a song by the who without the great John Entwhistles signature bass lines?
Imagine Chicago's Saturday in the park without those distinct horn lines?
So It depends what kind of music your playing.
But ive been listening to samples and Im thrilled by how they sound, and will probably end up getting this thing this weekend.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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My mom used to say to my brother and me, if we complained about something on the dinner table, " You want me to chew it for you?" Some things YOU need to do, and there are ways to do it. BiaB will sketch the basics for you, but if you want the signature drum roll from "in the air tonight" You either have to play it live, program it in midi, or sample it from the album. BiaB will never be a do everything for everyone program, there needs to be some participation from the user.
If you could push a button (that is mash to those of you south of the mason dixon line) and recreate a led Zep lead riff , what the heck would be the point, we would not need any talent at all. I struggle to make some riff on cover tunes sound real, but that is where i am always honing my skills.
Many of the features will grow and develop as time goes on. Still there must be a certain level of involvement on our part. Dive in at least it takes you far more than half the way there. Do a lot of research into things like midi programing, audio looping, cut and paste of audio one shots, all of these are options, get to know other musicians and some will colaborate with you. I did a nice version of Harrisons while my guitar gently weeps a couple years back, a lead guitarist i know played the lead riff and it was stellar.
Last edited by Robh; 07/22/10 09:43 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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"Get to know other musicians"
thats why Im considering band in the box.... lol so I can make recordings of my own songs, without needing a band.
And I agree "if you could push a button and it plays what u want" then we wouldnt need any talent at all"
but if you are a guitar player, and you're looking for a piano to play an intro similar to Meatloafs "I would do anything for love" that aint ever happening in BIAB.
Might happen if you pay a session musician who works online to add piano to your recordings, but then it gets mighty expensive paying somebody to put down piano for every song you compose.
Im not getting it for gigs, or to better my musicianship, or even to have fun, im considering it because it's a solution to the no band blues.
Last edited by Playin In The Band; 07/22/10 10:27 AM.
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Hey Playin, you are absolutely correct, if you're trying to do exact covers of famous tunes Real Tracks/Drums are not the way to go. Remember I pointed out to you they are audio files. Your EZ Drummer works strictly with midi, not audio. There's no way to break down an audio file to single notes or drum hits so you can write out your own part. Also your comment about jazz being somwhow easier to deal with is not correct. All of the famous jazz tunes have the same kind of drum punches/fills and other song specific hooks in them that the pop tunes do. Just listen to Night in Tunisia, Joy Spring, Maiden Voyage or any other classic jazz tune, you'll hear it. Either genre can be faked by simply setting up some groove tracks and start jammin along. Heck, I did 25 or 6 to 4 with a drum machine as a trio a few years ago. The basic rock beat was great but of course no snare hits at the end of each phrase but the guitar player hit those crunch chords and sang the vocal, the sax player and I did the horn lines and the audience danced their butts off. We still conveyed the impression of what the tune was but it certainly was not an exact cover. It's really only us players who care if those exact parts are in there or not, the audience could care less in most cases.
Want to know what we did at the casino last Sunday? We went from doing a rock & roll medly consisting Boot Scootin Boogie, I Saw Her Standing There, some Elvis and a shuffle blues that we played live to suddenly doing a killer midi file of In The Mood. It's a full big band arrangement and our third guy also plays trumpet so he stepped out front and did the lead trunpet lines and solo's and the sax was just playing along. It was great and the crowd loved it. The energy was good so we did another midi of Beat It. Not too many groups will go from Boot Scootin Boogie to In The Mood to Beat It. That kind of versatility is what sells at least around here. I'm not trying to brag here, just making the point if you need an exact cover just play a midi file, why reinvent the wheel? They are readily available but I wouldn't want to play midi's for a whole gig, where's the fun in that?
In your case since you're not doing this for gigs and you don't have a band then Biab really is the best game in town even if it's not perfect. What a lot of us do at home is to set up a good midi file in Real Band of your target song. You can do a lot by replacing most but not all of the drum track with an appropriate Real Drum part but keeping the best song specific parts played by your EZ Drummer. You can also replace the majority of a guitar part with a Real Track but maybe keep some midi guitar hooks. Real Band gives you 48 tracks to play with, you're not restricted to just a few like with with Biab.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 07/22/10 10:57 AM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Thanks Jazz
Yeah, watching jazz only for 3 hours, would be a bore for most people. So it's good you work other stuff in there and shows your versality. Jazz is something that mostly only musicians can fully enjoy. Musicians can appreciate it cause they realize the hard work that goes in to learning it, but to the regular person, it can be boring.
Im from New Jersey so I always liked when a band would segue from Jersey Girl by Springsteen to
New York New York by Sinatra or Summer wind, and then before people have the time to fall asleep go into something rockin.
Anyway, it just seems like it;s more advantageous to be a keys player than a guitar player so you can utilize MIDI properly.
But the one thing that's missing from Realband or Biab is creativity.
Hey, any competent musician can play anything the Beatles ever wrote, but what makes the beatles special and the stones special is their songs and their instrument parts.
Ringo's drum fills in "a day in the life" is an incredible stroke of genius, now to a drummer who needs to learn the song, he might say "whats so hard about that" it's not, but you yourself would have never thought of it.
Same thing with all of Pauls Bass lines and Georges guitar riffs and solos. Not overly complicated, yet
it took a Beatle to come up with it.
So the point of it all, is your not just looking for a nice sounding track, you're looking for a track that contributes to the song.
But I will end up geting BIAB and Real BAnd anyway, the curiosity is enough
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You sound like you know what's up musically. To expand on my comments about using Real Band, I have a directory with several dozen midi files I've found on the web that overall suck but they have one or two tracks that really cook like a good latin percussion midi track or a good melody track or whatever. You can mix and match things in RB from different sources.
Have you heard Carlos Arellano's home made Santana demo "Latin Cowboy" in the thread just down from this one? If you haven't, check it out. I also posted one a year or so ago that I did from a midi file called Mambo For Trajid where I used 3 different Real Drum tracks along with the original midi drums plus 2 or 3 original midi instrument parts plus me playing live synth and piano. In addition to all that, RB will create individual Biab parts either midi or RT's using a different style for each if you want that. You can do a lot with Real Band once you get into it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Sounds good, but if somebody asked me to guess if it were real tracks or midi, I'd say midi.
Nice mix of sounds though, it works.
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Ah but you can find the intro to meatloaf. Just find the midi file, but only use the tracks that you want and add to it. I find almost every song i want, but many times there is things in the midi file that don't sound good but you can process them and they can really polish up nicely. I find that i can make almost anything i want if I really work at it.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Not sure we're on the same page Robh. I used meatloaf's piano intro as an example of an accompaniest who can come up with a piano part on the fly for your songs.
Like your a songwriter, u sing and play guitar and dont play piano, and you put down your guitar and vocals, and now you need a piano player to write you a part that compliments your melody and your style.
So you're not only borrowing his ability to play along with you, but his ability to create musical phrases that fit specifically with your song.
It's askin way too much of a software to do that, but I actually write on guitar but often hear specific parts on piano that I can hear in my head but cant play.
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if you want specific parts, consider making collaboration requests here on the forum. Lots of acccomplished performersd of many instruments hang out here, and making music is what they like to do.
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Maybe we are on different pages, but you keep saying you want to make things that sound like specific songs, and i was telling you that is easy to do that, but now you are talking about original songs tracks. You want a track to sound like a concept in your head If you want a specific sound you can either write it in midi, use audio loops, one shot it in audio, ask other musicians to collaborate, or let Biab come up with a piano track, or learn to play.
There are endless options inside BiaB, you can use the 1600 + styles to design a piano track, use the melody maker to make melody a line, sing the notes in and allow it to make a melody line, or harmony line, or make your own style with style maker. That way you can add the different instrument tracks styles together and "roll your own" style. Example of a walking bass with a compin piano, then change out the piano for a different type of piano track save the style under adifferent name and you have a new custom style.
As far as midi, not sounding real, that is not always true, a good midi writer can fool you, and using better samples will make a huge difference. Piano tracks are far easier to make with midi than say fiddle. I have heard midi piano that sounded very live. It takes work and effort, one needs to learn to "humanize" the midi by altering timing and velocity of the notes. I had a vocal Ohh and Ahh track on a midi song i worked on a couple nights back and it sounded fake and canned. With about 20 minutes work i had it sounding like real people, not perfect mind you but 200% better.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
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Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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