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I bought BIAB for practicing at home.
I remember the first time I met a DJ. I was playing a job at a very nice hotel and was sitting at the bar during my break. I struck up a conversation with the man next to me and learned he was a DJ. I couldn't verbalize at the time why I felt uncomfortable talking to him but it soon dawned on me that his job was to put live musicians out of work.
I played along with BIAB for my wife last night and she suggested, why don't you play a few numbers like that on your solo jobs. I responded, what's the difference between me and a DJ?
I have to say that the last two years have been the absolute worst years for me regarding live work. Everyone has cut back because of the financial meltdown.
Is using BIAB on jobs an ethical issue for you?
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there is a recent thread around here somewhere on that very topic.
My take is that every venue has a price they are willing to pay for entertainment. If that price is $100 then they've already priced out a 4 piece band, and they're looking for 1 person to provide the entertainment (be it a DJ or soloist or karaoke or open mic etc)
You can't change that reality, but you can adapt to it. All commerce involves offering a cost-effective solution to fill a known void. If you can do that, you'll continue to get work. If you can't, then you'll go belly up.
If you can offer an entertainment solution that meets the needs of local employers and also meets your financial needs, then you have a workable business plan.
I think what you need to shed is the belief that you are undermining other musicians if you play with BIAB, because the businesses have already lowered their entertainment budget so low that full bands are no longer an option for them. In their minds It has become a question of smaller bands or no band at all. They are trimming costs to stay in business too. If I read your post correctly, you are already playing a solo act. So what's the difference in using BIAB to supplement your own performance? I would guess the only difference would be fullness of sound, which should land you more gigs.
Adapt and survive, or pursue an altruistic approach that severely limits the opportunities available to you.
That's my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.
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What Pat said....& I'm in the craft biz, I make pottery and it has the same downturn as all the other non essential stuff in life. So what do I do, I cut back on all the non essential stuff also. I don't buy new equipment or go out to hear Trans Siberian at the venue in town, will it put them out of biz, some day maybe.
This maybe the greatest turning point in our nation's history but we won't be sure till sometime in the future. If you don't survive now, it won't matter later. It may sound a bit grim and things change.
Wyndham
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Quote:
there is a recent thread around here somewhere on that very topic.
My take is that every venue has a price they are willing to pay for entertainment. If that price is $100 then they've already priced out a 4 piece band, and they're looking for 1 person to provide the entertainment (be it a DJ or soloist or karaoke or open mic etc)
You can't change that reality, but you can adapt to it. All commerce involves offering a cost-effective solution to fill a known void. If you can do that, you'll continue to get work. If you can't, then you'll go belly up.
If you can offer an entertainment solution that meets the needs of local employers and also meets your financial needs, then you have a workable business plan.
I think what you need to shed is the belief that you are undermining other musicians if you play with BIAB, because the businesses have already lowered their entertainment budget so low that full bands are no longer an option for them. In their minds It has become a question of smaller bands or no band at all. They are trimming costs to stay in business too. If I read your post correctly, you are already playing a solo act. So what's the difference in using BIAB to supplement your own performance? I would guess the only difference would be fullness of sound, which should land you more gigs.
Adapt and survive, or pursue an altruistic approach that severely limits the opportunities available to you.
That's my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.
Pat you are 100% on the money with your comments.
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The desirability of live entertainment continues even when budgets decline. I predict that as more musicians adapt to the paradigm of small acts, more businesses will offer cost-effective live music, and opportunities to play music will actually increase.
It's all about supply and demand, same as in every other type of business. It wouldn't make sense to have a small venue for music if there weren't a lot of musical acts to draw from. Who wants to hear the same act all the time? As small acts increase, small venues will too.
So, looking at it THAT way, we are on the cutting edge of a paradigm shift that will actually benefit musicians everywhere.
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Citaat:
I don't buy new equipment or go out to hear Trans Siberian at the venue in town, will it put them out of biz, some day maybe.
Oh, man, how I'd LOVE to be at a TSO-concert! Unfortunately they only tour in the US. I'll just have to play their CD's...
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Quote:
"Businesses of the future will be small, mobile, and intelligent." - Robert Fripp, ca. 1980s
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
Quote:
"Businesses of the future will be small, mobile, and intelligent." - Robert Fripp, ca. 1980s
So true. I think we people in the Music Business forget the operative word is Business.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"Businesses of the future will be small, mobile, and intelligent." - Robert Fripp, ca. 1980s
So true. I think we people in the Music Business forget the operative word is Business.
Absolutely! People who succeed in musical endeavors typically treat music as a business. People who treat it like a hobby get totally different results. Reading any of Notes Norton's posts it is abundantly clear that he treats music as a business. All of his decisions are driven by the goal of customer satisfaction.
When we apply the rules that are known to produce good results in every other business... well, it goes without saying.
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Pat I agree, we must adapt to survive. When I started out, it was with a seven piece Dixieland Group in Chicago.. Then it was playing with a real Latino Big Band Jazz Outfit...Prez Prado Type Then it was playing with gringo orchestras Then it was the "standard" quintets, quartets, trios, duos...and then Single act with just guitar and vocals Now it builds from there My voice My guitars My Bass guitars-fretted and fretless My Synth Guitar (Like Metheney's Roland GR-303 My Synths: RolandG-1000, Yamaha CS6X, Korg PA60,a trio of M3r's, Karma, Yamaha Motif Rack, Motif ES, XV5080, Akai Sample/synth, Roland M1+, Ensoniq EPS+...Korg Triton, 2 Oasys Synth Cards.... Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire, and a Merry Christmas to all..he's got goodies on his sled... Now it's solely solo with my own "orchestrion", and speaking of that, here's another one from a talented guy>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7GqCjngWCo&feature=relatedYou know, the ol' American Enginuity plus some duck-tape, and you never know what you can get a gig with!! 
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
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Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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Matheny's thing is just another version of the old Wurlitzer or Rodgers theater organs. They have real cymbals, vibes and tons of other real instruments too. If you've never heard a concert done on one of those, find one and check it out.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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speaking of business and music:
My son grew up working in a pizza shop. When you walked in, the first thing you saw was a map on the wall with a circle on it. The store was in the middle of the circle, and the circle defined their delivery area. They knew it isn't profitable to deliver EVERYWHERE, so they staked out a specific area and worked it.
Now my son plays in a popular 4 piece local smooth jazz group, and they approach it like a business. They have staked out a radius around our town, and they have a list of every place in that radius offering live music. They have a specific goal: to play at least twice a week, and they generally meet that goal.
They all have other jobs, but they feel like that frees them from the anxiety of having to work out of desperation. For most of the members, this is the first band they've ever been in where everybody had the same goals. Nobody believed they were going to hit it big and move to LA or NY... they all just want to play regularly, stay together a very long time and make some money while they do what they love.
Seems to be working.
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I've always been of the opinion that if you are a professional musician (yes, professional musician – if you’re being paid to do something you are a professional) you have an obligation to do the best job you possibly can. This means that you should use whatever means you have to achieve the highest standard and quality that you can. By using BIAB does this put other musicians out of a job? I don’t think so. It would only be the case if you approached a venue that employed a duo, trio or quartet and told them that you could do as good or a better job than them for half the price. Time to get silly. Does a singer who accompanies him/herself on guitar replace a guitar player? If he/she also plays harmonica at the same time is that replacing two musicians? Of course not. How many times have you watched a “live” TV show where the singer is either lip syncing or using backing tracks. Would the television station hire an entire band to accompany the singer for one or two songs? I doubt it. This can be traced back to the 1930s or 40s when most radio shows were done live. Bing Crosby used to travel the country presenting his radio show live, until he got tired of constantly travelling. He then decided to record his show live and distribute tapes to other radio station across the USA. On the other hand, look at all the musicians that PG Music hires to record the Real Tracks. That’s putting musicians IN work.  When I bought my Yamaha Electone organ in the 1970s it had built-in drum accompaniment. The Musicians Union tried to have them banned as they were “putting drummers out of a job.” I wonder what they would have thought of BIAB back then.  (End of rave, step off soap-box)
Cheers,
Keith
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I'll never understand why some people will try to ban a new technology.
Good intentions, maybe.
But most times, history shows us that all any ban has ever done is create new black markets.
As for the use of BiaB, the technology is here and there are those who will choose to use it and those who won't.
In my current situation, if I could find a bass player and drummer who could actually keep up, I'd love that, but I can't find 'em here. LOTS of wannabes, but they can't play the gig, man.
--Mac
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...
Last edited by rharv; 12/19/10 06:18 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Dave,
Great responses above all I'll add (forgive me if this have been covered already above) is the following:
The answer to your question "what's the difference between you and a DJ"?
Simply put, your act man.
"Am I putting musicians out of work"?
Keeping in mind what has already been stated above, i.e. what the market will bare. The answer is a resounding no as these same musicians can also adapt by developing a solo act and possibly be right back into the swing of things.
Book those gigs and play them man, it is not only the honorable thing to do but it is what musicians live for.
Later,
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The TSO is coming to Toronto and other Canuckistan venus.
However I only know that because as a small benefactor to the TSO (Toronto Symphony Orchestra) I thought the article I read was going to be about them due to the heading.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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TSO at Greensboro NC tickets were around $85 ea so $170 for my wife and that was 10x more than a CD and Youtube for a quick fix for $0. Dave just remember this, you can play & get paid, If I played, I'd get rotten fruit, so enjoy the talent, it's a blessing. As for me, all those folks out there that will never hear me is a Blessing hidden from them like so many Blessing we all get and don't know they are there, but I will get a Continuum Fingerboard someday then watch out.  Wyndham
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Dave, use it. I have been a BIAB user for years, and to me it is a tool to further both my playing abilitly and my solo act. I travelled a lot so the luxury of rehearsals was difficult to schedule at times. I still play in a 16 piece swing band so I load any of the chord progressions for songs that I sing, have solos, and/or difficult arrangements. I then copy those into a cd/mp3 player and play them back while driving in the car or hotel room. | sing all my parts against the BIAB recordings. I did a solo gig (freebee) for the local seniors 2 weeks ago. So I used the BIAB to provide my backup for Christmas songs and old standards. They got some nice full sounding entertainment. When I was working in Edmonton I did some coffee house stuff (Gordon Lightfoot, Ian Tyson) so in that instance I just used BIAB to rehearse with and only played my guitar on stage. In all instances my approach was not to put some musician out of work but to provide the very best product I can in whatever music I play. If you become popular and get more gigs because of it that is the return of your investment in time and money. From the content of your letter it certainly doesn't appear that your intent is to put musicians out of work, your intent is to provide a better product. If as stated earlier you become more popular then you get more jobs, if you get more jobs, someone gets less jobs. BIAB is a great musical tool! As a side note it would be trying to apply the same reasoning to PT or RB. Look at all the studio employees we put out of work by recording, mixing, and mastering our own work.DennisD
There are only 3 kinds of musicians: those that can count, and those that can't!
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Citaat:
TSO at Greensboro NC tickets were around $85 ea so $170 for my wife and that was 10x more than a CD and Youtube for a quick fix for $0
You just struck the heart of the conversation!
TSO performs with a live band and a large live orchestra and a couple of guest singers, a whole lot of fine musicians performing their hearts out for you. But your priorities lie elsewhere (I'm not holding this against you! This is NOT a personal attack!). You don't want to spend the money on a live show.
If the singers performed the show with backingtracks the tickets would see a dramatic drop in price. OK, the show and the experience would be a lot different too, but everything has it's price.
People nowadays don't have the money or don't want to spend the money anymore on shows like that. At least, not on a regular base. That is why venues have to look for other forms of entertainment that costs less.
Still would LOVE to be at a TSO-concert though...
I would pay the price of the tickets for me and the misses. but flying to the USA and the stay itself and all would prove just too much...
Been to a couple of Savatage concerts though
Oh, John. I when I wrote TSO I meant the other world class act: Trans Siberian Orchestra.
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And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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