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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2007
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OP
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Hi Guys,
Most of what I do in BB is play songs imported from collections, i.e. Real Book, etc.. However, recently I've started creating my own songs and transcribing songs from other sources, and a couple of problems I am encountering have me scratching my head:
1. If I enter chords, say, in an 8-bar section, then enter a repeat for those 8 bars, BB will play the chord progression correctly the first time through the repeated section, but afterwards, it just plays the last chord encountered before the repeat and ignores all my nicely-entered changes on the repeat! What's up with that?
2. I didn't see a way to make an entire song in 2/4 time, so I used Edit/Set Time Signature (range of bars), and used bar 1 thru bar xx (end of song). If I enter a chord on the first half of the bar and the second half of the bar, BB ignores the second chord, as if it's skipping over it.
Could I be missing something obvious? If not, I'm surprised that BB is having problems interpreting such basic musical elements as 2/4 time and a simple repeated section. If there are fixes or workarounds to these problems, I'd sure like to be enlightened. Thanks.
--Doug
Visit the Elegance Music page on MySpace for samples of my current work.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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The two chords for a 2-beat bar are both in the first CELL of each bar.
Separated by a Comma.
Ex: C,G7
Both in the first cell (first half) of the bar.
Ignore the second cell in every bar.
I wouldn't use the repeats for 8 bars. Instead, I'd highlight the first 8 after entering the chords, hit Copy and then place the cursor at the following bar and hit Paste.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 141
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2003
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Quote:
1. If I enter chords, say, in an 8-bar section, then enter a repeat for those 8 bars, BB will play the chord progression correctly the first time through the repeated section, but afterwards, it just plays the last chord encountered before the repeat and ignores all my nicely-entered changes on the repeat! What's up with that?
From the tutorial at http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_repeats.htm
An important setting to understand is the "Generate (insert) new bars" checkbox. When you use the 'Repeats\codas\1st-2nd endings' command, you need to tell Band-in-a-Box if you want it to generate new bars for the repeat, or if you want it to use bars that are already in your song. In the 'Edit Repeats and Endings' dialog, if "generate (insert) new bars" is checked, Band-in-a-Box will create as many new bars as are needed for the repeat, and will automatically insert the chords in those bars for you. If "generate (insert) new bars" is unchecked, Band-in-a-Box won't create any new bars; it will use the bars in your song immediately following the section that you have told it to repeat. Not setting this correctly is the most common mistake made.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 36
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OP
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Thanks, Mac. What about 3/4 time? How are the cells divided up in 3/4?
It would be great if BB had a way of specifying meters for the entire song, so we wouldn't have to specify a range of bars from beginning to end. Most music doesn't change meter in mid-stream.
It would also be more intuitive if BB used the same number of cells in each bar as the number of beats. Have three cells for 3/4 time, 2 cells for 2/4, etc..
My main reason for wanting to use repeats is to keep an entire song on one page, when I print it out. Yes, I can copy and paste an 8-bar section, but I'm inputting these songs from a C fakebook to BB so that I can input the melody and then transpose it for a Bb instrument, printing it out and using the lead sheets in a non-BB live situation. The fakebook I'm transcribing some songs from has most songs on one page, using repeated sections, D.S. al Fine, etc.. To have two (or especially, three) pages for a song which should fit on one page is really inconvenient in use. So I'd like to have the BB-generated lead sheet formatted with repeats so that I can have one page per song.
Visit the Elegance Music page on MySpace for samples of my current work.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ed- thanks for your input, too. That's a pretty counterintuitive concept- having to specify that BB generate new bars for a repeated section. Doesn't it follow that if you're repeating a section, that you'll need the bars that you're repeating played? It should be automatic. Unless there's a case in which you'd have a repeated section and not have the repeated bars played. What musician sees a repeated section in their sheet music, and when they go back for the repeat, just plays the same note and chord that they encountered on the last measure before the repeat? Kind of silly.
Visit the Elegance Music page on MySpace for samples of my current work.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi, Protostar -
Think of the cells more in terms of beats, rather than than bars. BIAB is pretty much based on 4 beats to the bar, with each cell supporting 2 beats (and just use a comma between each chord). So, as Mac explained, if you want 2/4 time (or two beats to the bar), then you only use the first cell for those two beats. If you want 3/4 time (which also requires specifying either a waltz style or explicitly setting the bar to 3 beats using the F5 key), then you use the first cell (for beats 1 and 2) and then just the first half of the 2nd cell (for beat three). If you used a comma in the second cell and entered another chord, then the waltz style would just ignore it.
And of course, for 4/4 time, you would use both cells, with the first two beats in the first cell and the 3rd and 4th beats in the 2nd cell.
I hope that made sense.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Journeyman
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Re: setting a song to 2/4 - at the first bar of the song, hit F5 (the bar settings window) and enter 2 for the number of beats per bar. From then on your song should be in 2/4 until you change it back to 4/4 or 3/4 with the F5 window. As you may have noticed, the beats per bar in the Bar Settings window will be 0 when you open it (unless you have already changed that bar - the default is 4/4 so I have always thought it should say 4 but it is a small issue), so if you change it at some point you will need to type in the 4 to get back to 4/4.
Good luck.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
As you may have noticed, the beats per bar in the Bar Settings window will be 0 when you open it (unless you have already changed that bar - the default is 4/4 so I have always thought it should say 4 but it is a small issue)
+1
This would be a good suggestion to post over on the Wishlist.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I believe that it might make sense to show a 4 (for 4/4); however, I believe that is consistent with other settings where 0 (zero) means no change to the default. It would also show 0 for a waltz style, which has 3 beats to the bar.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Btw Ed J, thanks for the link to that Repeats tutorial. That is clearing things up for me quite a bit.
--Doug
Visit the Elegance Music page on MySpace for samples of my current work.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Doesn't it follow that if you're repeating a section, that you'll need the bars that you're repeating played? It should be automatic.
Shame on you, you're thinking like a musician.... 
This gets almost everybody who's familiar with fake book charts. The thing is Biab was created by highly educated musicians in the first place but sometimes computer programming just doesn't allow for everything I guess. Logically I completely agree with you, if you tick the repeat box with the number of bars then it should know to just copy those bars and put them in. It's probably one of those arcane programming things where if they did that, it screws up something else totally unrelated but who knows? Overall Biab is pretty good with following proper musical concepts which is why it very common in music schools all over the world.
I've found the best way is to enter your tune as one long song no repeats, codas or anything else. This is where the copy/paste function is very useful then go back and create the repeats because everything is there to do it. The tag ending and coda's work very well too, just experiement a bit to learn exactly how they work.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Journeyman
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Quote:
Doesn't it follow that if you're repeating a section, that you'll need the bars that you're repeating played? It should be automatic.
No. One very common use of the Repeats dialog is to fold up songs that are already entered in full. In those cases, you do NOT want measures added, because they're already there.
That has nothing to do with arcane programming practice. It can't be made automatic, and you need the checkbox.
Larry
______
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Well, it could (and should) be made automatic - maybe this is one for the suggestion box. Here's a couple of scenarios:
1. You're writing a song from scratch, or transcribing one from a fakebook, that has already been folded up (curious term) with repeats. You type in the chords for the first 8-bar section, then put in a simple repeat. BB would detect that the bars after the repeat are different, and generate the bars in the repeated section. In fact, if you tell it to repeat a section 'x' number of times, BB would generate that section of bars 'x' times.
2. You are writing a song, or are dealing with a song in which all repeats have been unfolded. You have a 16-bar section which consists of two identical 8-bar phrases. You then put in a repeat at the 8th bar. BB would detect that the bars after the repeated bar are exactly the same as the repeated section, and NOT generate the bars. Automatically.
3. The two 8-bar phrases you're entering are identical, except that the last bar of the second 8 bars is different (to modulate to the bridge or something). BB would detect this and instead of a simple repeat, it generates a 1st & 2nd ending repeat, automatically generating the bars.
Eventually, BB could become quite sophisticated in this automatic detection of song form and generation of logical repeats, D.S., Coda, etc.. in cases where there's more than one system of repeats that might work, BB could present a pop-up menu of choices, and you could select the folded-up version of the song which makes the most sense to you.
BB is a great program - and I feel it could be made even greater by enhancements to the programming, making it conform more to the way musicians use music, not the way a computer deals with it.
--Doug
Last edited by protostar; 04/29/10 02:05 PM.
Visit the Elegance Music page on MySpace for samples of my current work.
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That sounds like a good idea to me, Doug!
To make sure that development team sees it, you should place that post on the Band in a Box Wishlist Forum...
--Mac
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